Stupid apostasy law in Malaysia
-
Salaam,
Bis mil lah hir rah man nir rahim..
It is the parents right to guide the children.
thus the apostasy laws are sound.
Lina Joy(i find it funny that Malaysia uses that name considering it is not a muslim name) should go to Shariah courts to go thru rehabiliation program to learn about her faults.
Is she doing it for love?
For me i have had a personal experience in this matter.
A cousin wated to enter Chrisitanity,she asked us first for approval,
Alhamdulilah,we the family explained to her the reason why Islam is the truth.
She asked many question and when she cant asnwer she went the church for answer.
She finally find that the teaching of the church are superficial and in truth hyprocritical.
we asked her to look in the bible for the laws akin to Islam,those that the western world consider barbaric.
We asked to look in the bible for the laws that ban pork,alchohol in the bible.
We asked her,simply to read the bible.
Alhamdulilah,now she is fearful of Allah and thankful for Allah mercy.
She now is married and with children and raising her children in full awareness of the traps of this secular world.
Lured by greed lust and deciet is easy.
as the saying go,any fool can make a baby,only a man can raise one. -
Good morning,Originally posted by Zulkiflim:Salaam,
Bis mil lah hir rah man nir rahim..
It is the parents right to guide the children.
thus the apostasy laws are sound.
Lina Joy(i find it funny that Malaysia uses that name considering it is not a muslim name) should go to Shariah courts to go thru rehabiliation program to learn about her faults.
Is she doing it for love?
For me i have had a personal experience in this matter.
A cousin wated to enter Chrisitanity,she asked us first for approval,
Alhamdulilah,we the family explained to her the reason why Islam is the truth.
She asked many question and when she cant asnwer she went the church for answer.
She finally find that the teaching of the church are superficial and in truth hyprocritical.
we asked her to look in the bible for the laws akin to Islam,those that the western world consider barbaric.
We asked to look in the bible for the laws that ban pork,alchohol in the bible.
We asked her,simply to read the bible.
Alhamdulilah,now she is fearful of Allah and thankful for Allah mercy.
She now is married and with children and raising her children in full awareness of the traps of this secular world.
Lured by greed lust and deciet is easy.
as the saying go,any fool can make a baby,only a man can raise one.
It is the parent's duty to teach and guide their children, whether they are chinese, caucasian, or indian, no different from the malaysian malay. It is also the parents' duty to protect their children, against bad influence of the society. And these are done out of love for their children, never to be claimed as the right of the parents!
But even in the barbaric society, the parents also teach their children, how to hunt, how to kill. So what makes us different is what we teach our children.
We teach them to love as we love them, we teach them to respect as we respect them and others. No christians, nor buddhists, nor hindi, nor Taoists, teach their children to embrace their religions or else they would end up like some muslims who became terrorists and blow themselves up into pieces. We teach our children our religious belief for what are taught in the Bible, by the monks or the respective prophets, never by running down, or misquote the other religions. If islam is truth because other religions are superficial, then islam is hypocritical.
We teach our children so that they will grow up respecting the secular laws, but also to be aware in case some secular laws are bad laws. We never use secular laws to enforce compliance in our families. -
We also teach our children that it is ultimately their choice, and they possess the sole responsibility for their choice.
-
think the treads is burning with eternal flame and those who are giving neutral opinions are the gods, and those who wish to stir up the fire of the religious are the devils. Lets hope all this can be discuss in a more friendly way and somemore Singapore is a multi-racial society, we need to respect each another religion irregardless if we feel that they are fake or untruth.
If the 'extremists' in the forum wanted to create fiction among the races then we have all fall into the trap. We all dun wish to see ppl of different races fighting against one another rite?
So lets give more neutral opinion.
-
Originally posted by Zulkiflim:
Without attempting to be controversial, I will attempt a response to this very boastful and provacative post with a purposeful intent to insult and abuse the good senses of any normal person in this Speaker's Corner.
Salaam,
Bis mil lah hir rah man nir rahim..
Firstly, it is odd that Muslims in Southeast Asia would try to imitate the Arabs when adopting Islam as a personal religion, even to the extent of following the views and controversial rivalries of the different Arabic tribal sects in the Islamic Faith.
The opening greetings in Arabic is simple enough, but how much does the average Muslim lay person truly understand the Arabic word used in the Koran and in the various religious practices ?
Yet, the Southeast Asian Muslims will faithfully abandon their own cultural, social and historical heritage by immersing themselves totally into a religion that is based on Arabic practises and foreign to this region; and diligently imitate every aspects and movement of Arabic Islam.
Is this not a universal right recognised as the duty of the Parent to guide the children ?
It is the parents right to guide the children.
However, having the right to guide the children does not give the Parents the Right to also force the children into a religion that has no meaning to their personal intellect, personal philosophy, personal beliefs, personal values, and personal rights to choose.
Is it not odd that there are ex-Muslims - who have abandon Islam - as much as this article have indicated a prodigal Muslim returning to the Islamic Fold ?
Every modern country with a society and communities of people being educated and enlightened have recognised the Basic Human Rights to Freedom of Religion - in a list of Rights that are basic to the Citizens of any Democratic Country, including those that hint of democracy.
Somehow, the Freedom of Religion as enshrined in the Malaysian Constitution is not accorded to the Muslim Malaysian, as much as they have demanded to have EQUAL STATUS to all the other Malaysian Citizens.
This is the biggest IRONY in Malaysian Society, and can only exist in the convulted political thinking that can only occur in the Malay mind, which is the cause of all the historical frictions that has occurred in the relationship between Malaysia and all its neighbors near and far.
I will not pretend to be cleverer than the learned Chief Justice of Sabah and Sarawak, who is a NON-Muslim in a panel of three judges that presided in reviewing the appeal from Lina Joy.
thus the apostasy laws are sound.
As a learned person, well versed in Law - especially Malaysian Law, and being a non-interested party - I will accept his view as more valid than the other two presiding judges, who are Muslims - and can only be seen as shirking their responsibility in executing their duties to execute justice fairly.
In his statement, the Chief Justice of Sabah and Sarawak, Justice Richard Malanjum had made three key salient points on this matter::
Judge: ItÂ’s illegal and unreasonable
The Star, Thursday, 31 May 2007
PUTRAJAYA: Illegal and unreasonable. This was how Justice Richard Malanjum described the insistence of the National Registration Department (NRD) for Lina Joy to obtain a certificate of apostasy from the Federal Territory Syariah Court or any Islamic authority.
The Chief Judge of Sabah and Sarawak said that under applicable law, the Syariah Court in the Federal Territory has no statutory power to adjudicate on the issue of apostasy.
“The (NRD) insistence is unreasonable for it requires an act that is almost impossible to perform,” he said.
Justice Malanjum alleged that NRDÂ’s unreasonableness would have consequential effects in some states where apostasy is a criminal offence.
“Hence, to expect the appellant (Lina) to apply for a certificate of apostasy – when to do so would likely expose her to a range of offences under the Islamic law – is, in my view, unreasonable.”
Disagreeing with the Court of AppealÂ’s majority judgment, he said it completely disregarded the fact that Lina had made several applications for a change of name. Therefore, it should be regarded as a continuing act.
He said to confine the matter to LinaÂ’s third application was completely ignoring her dealings with the NRD.
He agreed with submissions by Lina’s counsel that if the NRD had correctly acted on her choice of religion for a replacement identity card (in October 1999) instead of rejecting it on the grounds she had not produced a certificate of apostasy, there would have been no necessity for the last application to correct the particulars as regards to entry of “religion.”
Others reasons stated by Justice Malanjum include:
> NRDÂ’s implementation of its policy has a bearing on LinaÂ’s fundamental constitution right to freedom of religion under Article 11 of the Federal Constitution.
> NRD director-general was wrong in stating that apostasy was exclusively within the realm of the Syariah Court as apostasy involves complex questions of constitutional importance
continue below -
continuation
Why should a name 'Lina Joy' be funny, when any other name such as 'Anita Sarawak' or 'Sheila Majid' will sound even more ridiculous - considering the cross culture of two talented singers, who are Muslim Faithfuls ?
Lina Joy(i find it funny that Malaysia uses that name considering it is not a muslim name) should go to Shariah courts to go thru rehabiliation program to learn about her faults.
Is she doing it for love?
I would assume that she have chosen this name for the JOY that she felt in freeing herself from a Religion in which the Males will freely impose their dominance on Females, and ignoring the blessed Prophet's teachings of equality to eveyone in His Family.
Religion is something personal, and each have our ways to interprete and experience the spirituality that drives us into any one Religion, and we are supposed to keep faith with the Religion that is personal to each of us. How one does it is based on individual values, intelligence, philosophy, principles, and societal opportunities to freedom of choice.
For me i have had a personal experience in this matter.
A cousin wated to enter Chrisitanity,she asked us first for approval,
Alhamdulilah,we the family explained to her the reason why Islam is the truth.
She asked many question and when she cant asnwer she went the church for answer.
She finally find that the teaching of the church are superficial and in truth hyprocritical.
we asked her to look in the bible for the laws akin to Islam,those that the western world consider barbaric.
We asked to look in the bible for the laws that ban pork,alchohol in the bible.
We asked her,simply to read the bible.
Alhamdulilah,now she is fearful of Allah and thankful for Allah mercy.
She now is married and with children and raising her children in full awareness of the traps of this secular world.
Lured by greed lust and deciet is easy.
as the saying go,any fool can make a baby,only a man can raise one.
Can one be a true believer if one is pressured into a Religion that one is pushed into from a young age ?
With wisdom gained from knowledge, and knowlege gained from education and experiences, values, philosophies, principles will also be affected as we are Living Beings and must learn to move ahead with new discoveries to achieve a higher level of Human Spirituality within Ourselves.
The Koran - like the Jewish Torah - was passed down from one generation to another in oral form, and it is recognised that the first attempt to have the Koran written did not occur until about 610A.D. when the Blessed Prophet began to receive his revelations for a period of 23 years until his death in 632 A.D.
The Bible has its origins from the Jewish Torah, with the Torah providing details that filled the Old Testaments during the period of Moses and pre-dating the arrival of the Messiah; and with the New Testaments being the diligent records by the Faithful Disciples to all the events that occurred during the lifetime of Jesus.
Whatever the cause of your cousin's sudden change of heart to return to being a Muslim, it is simple stupidity on your part to claim that the Koran is superior to the Bible.
Your attempt is clearly provocative and totally unnecessary if you are a true believer in the teachings from the Blessed Prophet.
As to do so, will simply deride the Great Torah of the Jewish brothers to your Arabic cousins, considering that both the Arabs and the Jews share a common father in the Biblical Abraham.
This poor thinking on your part simply reflect the shallowness of a Southeast Asian adopting a Religion that is totally foreign to this region, and without understanding the depth of history and soceital bonds between the Jews and the Arabs since the Biblical Days.
BTW, it is foolish to think that any fool can make a baby, and do you seriously believe that only 'a MAN' is capable of raising a child ?
You certainly is living in the wrong age and country. -
Atobe presents very good and sound arguments.
-
A man raise a baby, to become a suicide bomber? Sorry, just had to rant that out.Originally posted by Zulkiflim:Salaam,
Bis mil lah hir rah man nir rahim..
It is the parents right to guide the children.
thus the apostasy laws are sound.
Lina Joy(i find it funny that Malaysia uses that name considering it is not a muslim name) should go to Shariah courts to go thru rehabiliation program to learn about her faults.
Is she doing it for love?
For me i have had a personal experience in this matter.
A cousin wated to enter Chrisitanity,she asked us first for approval,
Alhamdulilah,we the family explained to her the reason why Islam is the truth.
She asked many question and when she cant asnwer she went the church for answer.
She finally find that the teaching of the church are superficial and in truth hyprocritical.
we asked her to look in the bible for the laws akin to Islam,those that the western world consider barbaric.
We asked to look in the bible for the laws that ban pork,alchohol in the bible.
We asked her,simply to read the bible.
Alhamdulilah,now she is fearful of Allah and thankful for Allah mercy.
She now is married and with children and raising her children in full awareness of the traps of this secular world.
Lured by greed lust and deciet is easy.
as the saying go,any fool can make a baby,only a man can raise one.
Sure you've found out Islam is the truth, but I find it uneccessary you had to polarize the abrahamic religions, east and west, secular and religious world into good versus bad. Did not your Quran say monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques are all where God's name are abudantly extolled? Did not your Quran say look not to the east or west, wherever you turn to, there is the face of God? And did not your prophet say to seek knowledge, even as far as to China and China is a secular buddhist/taoist country?
So I find that the multifariousness of the world is a natural thing, nothing to be disdainful of. That is why some religions insist on going a pilgrimage. Its to stop being only a village idiot and find how one can relate to the world, not to hold off the "Others" on unfounded fears. -
And yeah, lotsa thanks Atobe.
-
Good afternoon,Originally posted by Zulkiflim:She finally find that the teaching of the church are superficial and in truth hyprocritical.
we asked her to look in the bible for the laws akin to Islam,those that the western world consider barbaric.
We asked to look in the bible for the laws that ban pork,alchohol in the bible.
We asked her,simply to read the bible.
That is vague. Care to elaborate? -
No, no need. Bet you he can't even solve the superficial + hypocritical conclusions of his own religion.Originally posted by googoomuck:Good afternoon,
That is vague. Care to elaborate? -
In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own. -Thomas Jefferson
-
Wouldnt it be real nice if we all simply allow our good neighbors to Worship God in their own ways.If we keep saying God is one then how could your God be any different from mine
We are different from the other creatures because we were given the freedom to choose and make decisions.Lina Joy is not the first case and surely not the last of those wanting to be Christians and that goes for those countless who coverted to Islam too. Quote "If our slade is clean we may throw stones if not then just leave these people alone" not I say one ar but something like that>Good night! 
-
i think this apostasy law is a bit overboard.....the msian constitution requiring all malays to be muslims.....i feel that this whole issue is caused by implementing the islamic teachings into laws too strictly and making it such that it prevents a persons rights to freedom of religion......
-
sometimes non muslims will get affected also....Originally posted by sg mata:i think this apostasy law is a bit overboard.....the msian constitution requiring all malays to be muslims.....i feel that this whole issue is caused by implementing the islamic teachings into laws too strictly and making it such that it prevents a persons rights to freedom of religion......
during ramadan fasting times..no food in university, they say respect other pple's religion but who arent they disrepecting other pple's rights?
u just dun eat lah when puasa....
also certain states no alcohol...if u so holy...dun drink lah...y ban...shows lack of control.....
got other exmaples...so much more...thats y im in sg.,.haha -
Its politics comming into play here.Originally posted by sg mata:i think this apostasy law is a bit overboard.....the msian constitution requiring all malays to be muslims.....i feel that this whole issue is caused by implementing the islamic teachings into laws too strictly and making it such that it prevents a persons rights to freedom of religion......
To escape a religious backlash, the issue is kept in limbo.
The Civil Court refer the case to the Shariah Court.
The Shariah Court only hears Islamic matters. And represents only Muslims.
The Shariah Court do hear those who are not Muslims.
So one is outside the Civil Courts' jurisdiction, and not inside the Shariah Courts' jurisdiction.
And the government is non-commital, offering slippery excuses after slippery excuses for religious freedom and justice. Never trust the promises of a politician, even one with religious credentials. -
Siti Fatimah married her husband according to Hindu rites and got into trouble. She was detained and sent for religious counselling in a rehabilitation center. Her baby daughter was taken away from her husband and handed to a Muslim relative to raise her as a Muslim.
A short article on interfaith marriage according to Islam.
As far as the interfaith marriages are concerned, Islam does not encourage them. The general rule of Islam is that Muslims should marry Muslims. A Muslim male or female should not marry a non-Muslim male or female. (al-Baqarah 2:221). The only exception is given to Muslim men who are allowed to marry the girls from among the People of the Book (al-Ma’idah 5:5), but Muslim women are not given this permission. So it is Haram (forbidden) for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man. This is the law of God and a Muslim when he or she learns about a law of God and His Messenger (Prophet Muhammad) should only say, “I hear and I obey.”
(Note: People of the Book – Christians and Jews)
HereÂ’s a commentary on interfaith marriages in Islam.
By Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi
For the satisfaction of your heart, let me explain why Muslim men are allowed to marry women from among the People of the Book and why Muslim women are not allowed to do so. First of all, it is not an honor or a privilege to marry a non-Muslim. It is a burden and a big responsibility. It is better to abstain from such marriages. Muslim men who are living in non-Muslim countries in particular should not marry non-Muslim women. However, man being the head of his household is more capable to handle the needs and problems of his non-Muslim (Christian or Jewish) wife. Muslims believe that Moses and Jesus were prophets of God and so they give them full honor and respect. Jews and Christians do not consider Prophet Muhammad as the prophet of God. Thus they are unable to give the same respect and honor to him and to his followers. A Jewish or Christian woman with a Muslim husband will be in a much better position than a Muslim woman with a Jewish or Christian husband will.
Even then, there are many non-Muslim women who married outside their faith say that they wish their religion too had forbidden them, because they know how difficult and hard it is to be the wife of a husband who has a different faith.
A Muslim woman should know that God has really honored her and made it easy for her by not allowing her to marry a non-Muslim man. According to the QurÂ’an, the husband is the head of his household, his wife should obey him. God does not to put the Muslim woman in a position that a non-Muslim become her head in her own private life. God has spared her from being under the authority of a non-Muslim husband.
Please abandon the idea of marrying a non-Muslim, unless he truly accepts Islam. If you(Muslim woman) marry a non-Muslim, this will be a major sin. You will be living in sin and your relationship with that non-Muslim will be illegitimate in the eyes of God. May God protect you from all sins. -
Did God create Man ?
Or did Man - with his lack of confidence in facing the great unknown, and in his quest to know his origin and his purpose on Earth - find it all too convenient to create a neat answer in a ''nutshell of a three lettered word'' - called : 'GOD' ?
It is odd some of the major Religions that continue to exist for the past centuries were founded on ''Revelations'' that are experienced only by the Prophets from Ancient Times.
After a series of Prophets that seems to have begun during the earliest recorded religious works of Modern Religion in the Jewish Torah, somehow after the death of the last Blessed Prophet that started the Islamic Relgion - there seem to be no further Revelations experienced by anyone who will step forward to claim the title of Prophet.
The recorded testaments Jesus as written in the New Testament had him saying to beware of many 'false prophets' that will come after him, and for mankind to beware of such guileness.
Since the Jews of that period had rejected Jesus, was Jesus already prophesing the calamity that Mankind is to expect for all the falseness of those that come after him ?
In this present day and age, Mankind is left to interprete the recorded ancient words of those mysterious experiences of Revelations that only a few men of that period seems to have been privileged by GOD.
Mankind has seen a long drought period since the last Prohpet passed away in 632 A.D. - did someone forgot to update the line to GOD for more revelations to be passed down; or has the development of MANKIND annoyed GOD so much that he decided to abandon any more of his ''Revelations'' to anyone else ?
Mankind is now left to ponder and to interprete in any way all the "Revelations'' and Teachings of those in the 7 Century and earlier.
Can we trust the interpretations of Present Day Mankind - with all its own personal agenda, ambitions, and guile ? -
The authors of the gospels were unlettered and ignorant men and the teachings of Jesus have come to us mutilated, misstated and unintelligible. -Thomas Jefferson
-
Salaam,Originally posted by sgdiehard:Good morning,
It is the parent's duty to teach and guide their children, whether they are chinese, caucasian, or indian, no different from the malaysian malay. It is also the parents' duty to protect their children, against bad influence of the society. And these are done out of love for their children, never to be claimed as the right of the parents!
But even in the barbaric society, the parents also teach their children, how to hunt, how to kill. So what makes us different is what we teach our children.
We teach them to love as we love them, we teach them to respect as we respect them and others. No christians, nor buddhists, nor hindi, nor Taoists, teach their children to embrace their religions or else they would end up like some muslims who became terrorists and blow themselves up into pieces. We teach our children our religious belief for what are taught in the Bible, by the monks or the respective prophets, never by running down, or misquote the other religions. If islam is truth because other religions are superficial, then islam is hypocritical.
We teach our children so that they will grow up respecting the secular laws, but also to be aware in case some secular laws are bad laws. We never use secular laws to enforce compliance in our families.
Bis Mil Lah Hir rah Man Nir Rahm.
May i ask you,if you have a chld who was willing to take drugs ,,would you not stop it?
Is the same thing,why would we want any of the Ummah to fall into the pit?
Thus i say that Lina joy must be sent to the camp too learn what it means to be a muslim.
There as well she will be taught Islam is the chosen religion.
As oppiosed to her chosen faith.
If she is falling out of Islam due to love of a non muslim person,then she has to be taught of the ills of that religion.
In Islam we have Islamic laws and secular laws.
One is higher than the other.
We bring up our children to be responsible adult who will understand that this life is but a short spa,we live in this world for the next.
this world is but a test.
Inshallah. -
Salaam,Originally posted by Gauze:A man raise a baby, to become a suicide bomber? Sorry, just had to rant that out.
Sure you've found out Islam is the truth, but I find it uneccessary you had to polarize the abrahamic religions, east and west, secular and religious world into good versus bad. Did not your Quran say monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques are all where God's name are abudantly extolled? Did not your Quran say look not to the east or west, wherever you turn to, there is the face of God? And did not your prophet say to seek knowledge, even as far as to China and China is a secular buddhist/taoist country?
So I find that the multifariousness of the world is a natural thing, nothing to be disdainful of. That is why some religions insist on going a pilgrimage. Its to stop being only a village idiot and find how one can relate to the world, not to hold off the "Others" on unfounded fears.
Nah it is not a rant it is but a misconception.
Reagarding the Quran,the Quran clearly that people of the Book are to be held in honour but we do not emulate them nor their wrongs.
As for east and west,the Quran say EAST AND WEST BELONGS to ALLAH.
And yo are right on the knowledge,we learn all of other faith and other disciple,it is life long proces.
But again i would say i understand that most people of other faith fall pout of their religion so easily casue they find it wanting.
For us,Lina Joy is a child lost,Inshallah when she goes to the camp she will learn of the other religion.
But if her hearts is coddled towards the secular love,then she only damns herself. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
Salaam,
[/color]
[b]continue below
[/b]
Bism Mil Lah Hir Rah Man NIr Rahim.
May i ask,how do we muslim from east to west emulate the arabs?
Can you be more specific,i cna easily say that most asian also emulate the west..is that right?
Anf for a muslim not to know what the opening mean,then i would say IT IS SURPRISING.
When you say we abandoned our language and culture,well let see,we celebrate Hari Raya wearing our Malays dress,we speak malay,we have our own foods stuff much enjoyed by other races.
So perhaps you cna tell me how have we abandoned our culture?
And for a muslim,it is not irony,it simply is we do not like to lose a brother or sister ,we o wish to meet one another in Jannah.
The Ummah or muslim population is ONE ...the term is Ummah.
Any person misguided will Inshallah be taught back tot he right path.
As for the Chief justice of Sabah ,he was only one dissenting voices,the other 8 judges aggred with the result.
So are you syaing because the other are muslim,they therfore are not learned? Or maybe bias.
As for the papers using Lina Joy,simly because of John walker,remeber the Australian taliban,he converted to Islam and had a muslim name,but th world media did not seefit to use his converted name.
Funny wont you say.
As for your undestanding that Muslim males are higher than muslim females,then all i cna say it show your lack of knowledge.
Inshallah you can easly google for the right of women in Islam .
Or you ca serch for the video of debate between a chrisita missionary and muslim
And for Islam,religion is both personal an communal.
When we pray we pray as ONE.
When we break our fast we brek as ONE
So the piety is differnt b there is noting distinguishin a muslim FORM OF PIETY towards ALLAH.
All is the same.
And the Quran was passed down to us in both oral and written form.
Alhamdulilah,when ever Allah sent a wahyu to the Propeht Muhammad saw,the Propeht would recite the wrods to his adherent and the scribes would write it down.
The entire collection of the Quran is recited as it is on every Hajj and fasting period.
And for Muslim we revre the old Prophet but we do not worship them
We revere Propeht Muhamamd saw but we do not worship them.
In Islam we have 5 holy book,,,of them only one reamin intact and pure,the Quran.
The corruption of the other book,the OT and NT are plain for all to see.
Google for it.. -
This teaching sounds Jewish to me.Originally posted by Zulkiflim:.
We bring up our children to be responsible adult who will understand that this life is but a short spa,we live in this world for the next.
this world is but a test.
Heng lah .. Judaism does not have stupid apostasy law. -
The five holy books - Book of Abraham, Book of Moses (Torah), Psalms of David, Gospel of Jesus, the HOLY QURAN.Originally posted by Zulkiflim:In Islam we have 5 holy book,,,of them only one reamin intact and pure,the Quran.
The corruption of the other book,the OT and NT are plain for all to see.
I think it is oxymoronic to call the four of them holy and corrupted. Why didn't Allah preserve the other 4 .. I am amazed. -
Salaam,Originally posted by googoomuck:Good afternoon,
That is vague. Care to elaborate?
Simply enough,we asked her if she belives that the Bible is divine?
It is truth?
She siad yes,and so we shouwed her passages,contradicting passages and pronographical passages.,incssstous remarks.
We also highlighted to her of Gospels,do they have the gospel according to Jesus as? No,they have "inspired stories"/..
Many more i wont say for t will casue a flame.
Inshallah,if you are persisten i shall send you a link..