Obama to receive Singapore plea: BBC
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
I wonder why there's no "Speaker's Corner" outing.
then u go organise one. Remember to include gazelle -
Originally posted by annoy-you-must:
Sometimes I wonder if Poh Ah Pak could really be a pro-PAP person in disguise behind the cyber wall, out to tarnish the image of the oppositions through the use of senseless insults.i don't even think Ah Pak reside in Spore. or if he is a Singapore citizen for that matter.
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However, I wonder if this was a miss opportunity by most of the opposition to take the govt argument in their own ground. on the topics of --- justifying high wage to enter politics –
And compare the fact that Civil Rights ACT in the US brought renewal in leadership and inspired younger generation to get interested in politics in the United States. And healed its own historical unjust.
The Fact that SG Govt needs high dollar to continue leadership renewal in Singapore is an ongoing problem; it says much to the current outmoded political system. ---- in simple terms…… Its Dead..
However an improvement in civil rights in Spore might gives a much needed injection to interest in leadership renewal. And that our political system needs more reformed with more Depth to accommodate multiparty system so that voices can be heard by law maker representing various demographics.
(Personally grew up from a monopolizing system by single party for more than 3 decade and elected ministers voted base on party line, i am not sure I want to be replaced and be monopolized by another single party.)
For whatever its worth, Obama’s' hands are so full on his domestics plate that I doubt he is going to start a new debate on human rights especially with SG.
If there are any human right issue to bring up during the Nov submit I believe the entire ASEAN will have to address on Myanmar. I think that remain the biggerest sticking point.
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Strict regulation of public protest is necessary to keep Singapore stable. In reality, there aren't any agregious "human rights" violations in Singapore, as the right to life and property are secured in SG. Singaporeans don't have as much political rights as some other countries, but they're rewarded with high standards of living instead.
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Originally posted by AJ Witoslawski:
Strict regulation of public protest is necessary to keep Singapore stable. In reality, there aren't any agregious "human rights" violations in Singapore, as the right to life and property are secured in SG. Singaporeans don't have as much political rights as some other countries, but they're rewarded with high standards of living instead.
Singapore's foundations that enable the cursed senile despot to cash in, was built by the British and included "political rights", other than elections (like in Hong Kong), which the cursed senile despot damaged and is damaging with his nepotism, cronyism and greed.
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Originally posted by AJ Witoslawski:
Strict regulation of public protest is necessary to keep Singapore stable. In reality, there aren't any agregious "human rights" violations in Singapore, as the right to life and property are secured in SG. Singaporeans don't have as much political rights as some other countries, but they're rewarded with high standards of living instead.
Strict regulation of public protest is necessary to keep Singapore stable
i don't know if i agreed with the notion that public protest ensure to keep SG stable will "continue" to ensure a progressive improvement of higher standard of living. I grew up in SG and spend most of my adult life living and working oversea. Overtime I see the benefit of peacful protest.
I rather have a sound minded balance society than a "orderly" society.
What we needs are stability in peacful handover of power. And that Citizen respect the election result. I think So far Singapore citizen are respecful of the election result.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
However, I wonder if this was a miss opportunity by most of the opposition to take the govt argument in their own ground. on the topics of --- justifying high wage to enter politics –
And compare the fact that Civil Rights ACT in the US brought renewal in leadership and inspired younger generation to get interested in politics in the United States. And healed its own historical unjust.
The Fact that SG Govt needs high dollar to continue leadership renewal in Singapore is an ongoing problem; it says much to the current outmoded political system. ---- in simple terms…… Its Dead..
However an improvement in civil rights in Spore might gives a much needed injection to interest in leadership renewal. And that our political system needs more reformed with more Depth to accommodate multiparty system so that voices can be heard by law maker representing various demographics.
(Personally grew up from a monopolizing system by single party for more than 3 decade and elected ministers voted base on party line, i am not sure I want to be replaced and be monopolized by another single party.)
For whatever its worth, Obama’s' hands are so full on his domestics plate that I doubt he is going to start a new debate on human rights especially with SG.
If there are any human right issue to bring up during the Nov submit I believe the entire ASEAN will have to address on Myanmar. I think that remain the biggerest sticking point.
Did the Opposition Parties missed the opportunity to tackle head on with the Government on the issue of - "justifying high wage to enter politics" ?
You must have missed the grand debate that even involved the late JBJ against LKY - who was the creator and strongest proponent of Government high wages to attract renewal of talent into politics and into Government.
In the typically wilful and deceitful ways, LKY pushed through his ambitious plans by rejecting all forms and notions of political and civil debate and objections against his pet plans.
Like in the deceitful manner in which the one and only Referendum that was held for Singaporeans to vote on the subject of merger of Singapore with a large federation of Malaysia - do you think that anyone in Singapore could push LKY's ambitious plans off the shelf ?
Has it not been an established fact that LKY had arrogantly brushed aside even the best counsel of those more attentive to the dangers of an over zealous Family Planning program in the late 1960s through 1970s - which LKY had belatedly acknowledge this event in retrospect in the 1990s ?
As matters stand, these two disastrous events - in the wilful merger and Family Planning - has already showed that LKY's wilful ways have had long term effects on Singapore.
Singapore will have to wait another ten to twenty years before we can see the negative effects from LKY's insistance to pay high wages to attract talents into government service and into his kind politics.
Has the high wages attracted the kind of talent into PAP and into the Government ?
The plan has been effect since GCT stepped into the PM's seat nearly 15 years ago, and already the quality of talent to tackle Singapore's problems since the 1997 financial crisis, 2004 economic downturn that dragged on through 2008, and now into 2009 - have already revealed the impotence of the present talents.
By year 2011, the full effects will be known.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Did the Opposition Parties missed the opportunity to tackle head on with the Government on the issue of - "justifying high wage to enter politics" ?
You must have missed the grand debate that even involved the late JBJ against LKY - who was the creator and strongest proponent of Government high wages to attract renewal of talent into politics and into Government.
In the typically wilful and deceitful ways, LKY pushed through his ambitious plans by rejecting all forms and notions of political and civil debate and objections against his pet plans.
Like in the deceitful manner in which the one and only Referendum that was held for Singaporeans to vote on the subject of merger of Singapore with a large federation of Malaysia - do you think that anyone in Singapore could push LKY's ambitious plans off the shelf ?
Has it not been an established fact that LKY had arrogantly brushed aside even the best counsel of those more attentive to the dangers of an over zealous Family Planning program in the late 1960s through 1970s - which LKY had belatedly acknowledge this event in retrospect in the 1990s ?
As matters stand, these two disastrous events - in the wilful merger and Family Planning - has already showed that LKY's wilful ways have had long term effects on Singapore.
Singapore will have to wait another ten to twenty years before we can see the negative effects from LKY's insistance to pay high wages to attract talents into government service and into his kind politics.
Has the high wages attracted the kind of talent into PAP and into the Government ?
The plan has been effect since GCT stepped into the PM's seat nearly 15 years ago, and already the quality of talent to tackle Singapore's problems since the 1997 financial crisis, 2004 economic downturn that dragged on through 2008, and now into 2009 - have already revealed the impotence of the present talents.
By year 2011, the full effects will be known.
If not for the merger, Singapore would be a commie country for today, so please find out the facts.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
If not for the merger, Singapore would be a commie country for today, so please find out the facts.
Singapore become a commie country - if Singapore had not merged ?Who will lead Singapore to become a commie country ?
Lim Chin Siong ?
At the end of the day, it was proven that Lim was not a Communist as much as he had espoused 'Socialism'.
Ironically, the 'wolf in sheep's wool' was LKY.
Have you not observed the Marxist methods employed to control Singaporeans ?
His pretentious exercise in 'democratic-socialism' in the late 1960s through the mid-1970s was seen through by his early supporters from the European Socialist-Democratic movement - who were deeply shocked and disappointed by LKY's ruthless methods employed towards Singaporeans.
In his usual ways, LKY pre-empted the European Socialist-Democrats move to kick the PAP out of the movement, by quitting the organisation ahead of the passing of a motion to eject the PAP's membership.
The Singapore political and economic model that we see today is a mirror image of the State control and domination in all spheres of political, economic and cultural Life of the citizens.
In his memoirs, the late Chin Peng - the head of the Malayan Communist Party - had written that Lim Chin Siong was never a Communist, and the MCP did not control nor manipulated Lim Chin Siong's activities in Singapore.
Lim Chin Siong – controversy over Lim’s status of being a Communist - had plagued the political debate in Singapore since the 1960s, and the controversy was allowed to be perpetuated by LKY and the PAP to ensure that their credibility remains intact as long as the propaganda remains firmly in place.
Did you miss the earlier thread in this Speaker's Corner - Lim Chin Siong vs Lee Kuan Yew: The true and shocking history ?
You could do well to do some research and get independent reading materials on this subject, otherwise you will have to depend on the research efforts accomplished by others.
Lim Chin Siong vs Lee Kuan Yew : Part 1 – Our Man
Lim Chin Siong vs Lee Kuan Yew : Part 2 – Get Him
Lim Chin Siong vs Lee Kuan Yew : Part 3 – The end of Lim Chin Siong
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
A hundred bucks says Singapore WILL NOT get invaded by US Marines to "liberate" us or force "regime change."
Any takers?
Of course it will not come to that most likely.Simply becaue your dictatorial leaders don't have balls unlike Saddam.
They would likely to step down under mounting pressure locally and abroad to save whatever face they think they have left.
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Well Personally I am not a revisionary; I think is good lesson to learn if we know "Now" would we do it "than", there are always unintended consequences and blames to go around and that is the nature of society. I am sure that list get longer overtime.
Also...my point isn't about what was already said in the past either .......certainly never implied that opposition did not confront Govt on these topics. But if the opposition is going to start something than it has to be persistent until it is over.
I just think that the political interest group in SG misses the moment of opportunity to seize the event. Look at the elements that exist at the time of inauguration:
1) Greater Audience in Singapore (and globally; hopefully) are Inspired
2) Easy Reference of civil Right Successes
All it take for the opposition to connect the threads onto Singapore own political civil rights and put themselves on the positive side of the news.
Ultimately leadership renewal and motivation are greats Singapore agenda. Singaporean needs to step up and resolve the issue. I am not sure outward letter to ask Obama for greater freedom in Sg would help to gain further support locally. (I am sure Obama knows the dirty laundry in SG since he is familiar with this part of the world so it is not newly gained information.)
(I am sure there are SG suspicious of Ang Mo interfering; Ah Pek might complaint of conspiracy ........) If more than 50% of the population voted for PAP than nobody like to be bashed for who they voted for. Politics is about how to change people minds and wins their vote.
Anyway I was just thinking the Hamas took great calculation --- to break the cease fire on Hanukah and fought with Israeli and willing to withstand 3 weeks of being bomb --- before the inauguration to strengthen the support of Palestinian people from the West Bank. And to Test the new Obama administration to establish a New Peace Plan to place them as the legitimate power. (Maybe it was a Carter planned) And Israeli seize the opportunities to take out as many radical leaders as possible within the 3 weeks...... Russian shut off Gas pipeline.
Its all about Seizing opportunity…..knowing what you want.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Singapore become a commie country - if Singapore had not merged ?Who will lead Singapore to become a commie country ?
Lim Chin Siong ?
At the end of the day, it was proven that Lim was not a Communist as much as he had espoused 'Socialism'.
Ironically, the 'wolf in sheep's wool' was LKY.
Have you not observed the Marxist methods employed to control Singaporeans ?
His pretentious exercise in 'democratic-socialism' in the late 1960s through the mid-1970s was seen through by his early supporters from the European Socialist-Democratic movement - who were deeply shocked and disappointed by LKY's ruthless methods employed towards Singaporeans.
In his usual ways, LKY pre-empted the European Socialist-Democrats move to kick the PAP out of the movement, by quitting the organisation ahead of the passing of a motion to eject the PAP's membership.
The Singapore political and economic model that we see today is a mirror image of the State control and domination in all spheres of political, economic and cultural Life of the citizens.
In his memoirs, the late Chin Peng - the head of the Malayan Communist Party - had written that Lim Chin Siong was never a Communist, and the MCP did not control nor manipulated Lim Chin Siong's activities in Singapore.
Lim Chin Siong – controversy over Lim’s status of being a Communist - had plagued the political debate in Singapore since the 1960s, and the controversy was allowed to be perpetuated by LKY and the PAP to ensure that their credibility remains intact as long as the propaganda remains firmly in place.
Did you miss the earlier thread in this Speaker's Corner - Lim Chin Siong vs Lee Kuan Yew: The true and shocking history ?
You could do well to do some research and get independent reading materials on this subject, otherwise you will have to depend on the research efforts accomplished by others.
Lim Chin Siong vs Lee Kuan Yew : Part 1 – Our Man
Lim Chin Siong vs Lee Kuan Yew : Part 2 – Get Him
Lim Chin Siong vs Lee Kuan Yew : Part 3 – The end of Lim Chin Siong
Well, International Department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union would have applied pressure to create a commie country in SEA. That was the main agenda of International Department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and Lim Chin Siong would have been a sacrificial lamb. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Well, Commintern would have applied pressure to create a commie country in SEA. That was the main agenda of commintern and Lim Chin Siong would have been a sacrificial lamb.Commintern would have applied pressure to create a commie country in SEA ?
Has the agenda not already been surreptiously achieved with Singapore's present status of a dominant ONE Party Rule ?
Even China's Deng Xiao Peng had to visit Singapore in the 1970s to learn from LKY's experience in so successfully suppressing the rise of any other political parties to challenge the PAP, and allow PAP to dominate politics, and develop the economic, cultural and social philosophies without any political hindrances.
If Lim Chin Siong was a sacrificial lamb, who was the ultimate beneficiary ?
Was it not LKY - who had introduced to then Chief Minister David Marshall that Lim was the best candidate to be the future Prime Minister of Singapore with the tremendous support from Singaporeans then ?
Looking at the organisational structure of the PAP, does it not resemble the levels of autocracy of a communist party controlling a socialist state ?
The PAP was formed based on a political ideology of democratic-socialism for the progress of the mass of Singaporeans.
Unfortunately, the democratic part was dropped, and with socialism adopted for its strict form of controls without the socialist welfare to the proletariat.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Well Personally I am not a revisionary; I think is good lesson to learn if we know "Now" would we do it "than", there are always unintended consequences and blames to go around and that is the nature of society. I am sure that list get longer overtime.
Also...my point isn't about what was already said in the past either .......certainly never implied that opposition did not confront Govt on these topics. But if the opposition is going to start something than it has to be persistent until it is over.
Is this not what CSJ is attempting to do - being persistent and continuing the battle that was started by the late Dr Lee Siew Choh and the late JBJ - both of whom were so viciously cut down by LKY ?
LKY had been bitterly spiteful towards these opposition figures, and had relied on his best legal skills to undermine and suppressed both of them.
For JBJ, the most venomous legal skills were employed by LKY to ensure that a legally trained opposition member will never stand in Parliament to challenge LKY's use of legislative process to locked down Singaporeans.
The same venom was used to persecute the previous Solicitor-General Francis Seow when he offered himself as a candidate to stand for election to enter parliament. He had to flee Singapore after being arrested under the ISA, and with his office raided by IRAS for tax evasion charges.
I just think that the political interest group in SG misses the moment of opportunity to seize the event. Look at the elements that exist at the time of inauguration:
1) Greater Audience in Singapore (and globally; hopefully) are Inspired
2) Easy Reference of civil Right Successes
All it take for the opposition to connect the threads onto Singapore own political civil rights and put themselves on the positive side of the news.
Can the opposition succeed in such an environment that is purposefully created to disadvantage the opposition members ?
Under such circumstances, is it not correct that our rights to individual political space should be won back from a political party that is determined to ensure that such space is not available, and if made to be available - such space should be controlled ?
Under such circumstance, do you seriously think that Obama would have succeeded, or will we not see Obama become a Martin Luther King actively encouraging Civil Disobedience to regain what is rightfully belonging to the People ?
Ultimately leadership renewal and motivation are greats Singapore agenda. Singaporean needs to step up and resolve the issue. I am not sure outward letter to ask Obama for greater freedom in Sg would help to gain further support locally. (I am sure Obama knows the dirty laundry in SG since he is familiar with this part of the world so it is not newly gained information.)
When the environment is stifled and purposefully suppressed, a more superior external force will need to be depended on to arbiter the situation.
Was CSJ's letter intended "to ask Obama for greater freedom in Sg" - or for assistance to pressure the Singapore Government to live up to its commitment as a signatory to the UN Human Rights Convention and behave fairly to Singaporeans ?
Do nations have to wait for political genocide to occur before stepping in ?
(I am sure there are SG suspicious of Ang Mo interfering; Ah Pek might complaint of conspiracy ........) If more than 50% of the population voted for PAP than nobody like to be bashed for who they voted for. Politics is about how to change people minds and wins their vote.
If SG is suspicious of Ang Mo interfering, why are there so many Ang Mo's being invited to participate in our economy and taking jobs away from us ?
If SG is suspicious of Ang Mo interfering, why did the SG Government depend on the wisdom of the Ang Mo to represent SG in an Ang Mo Court to resolve the Pedra Branca issues with Malaysia ?
Has it not been through consultation with the Ang Mo that Singapore has succeeded with our industrialisation program, with the development of a modern MRT system, and continued associated program in tertiary education with Ang Mo university ?
Surely, the sum total wisdom of all the citizens of the World Community can also help the development of a modern Singapore political scene ?
Why will we suddenly become defensive and become inferior when Ang Mo are consulted and called to assist in arbitering our politics ?
In any case, Obama is only half an Ang Mo - as he is also half African, an ethnic group that LKY has never respected.
Anyway I was just thinking the Hamas took great calculation --- to break the cease fire on Hanukah and fought with Israeli and willing to withstand 3 weeks of being bomb --- before the inauguration to strengthen the support of Palestinian people from the West Bank. And to Test the new Obama administration to establish a New Peace Plan to place them as the legitimate power. (Maybe it was a Carter planned) And Israeli seize the opportunities to take out as many radical leaders as possible within the 3 weeks...... Russian shut off Gas pipeline.
Its all about Seizing opportunity…..knowing what you want.
Did Hamas make any calculation when they recklessly and brainlessly taunted the Israelis with a mindless firing of long range rockets that bombarded deeper into Israel ?
If the Israelis did not suddenly decide to halt their military campaign after surrounding Gaza City, there will be no opportunity for Hamas to gloat over their false claims to having resisted the Israeli IDF.
As matters stand, Hamas has been written off as a terrorist organisation, and is not seen as a willing player to live with Israel.
Can Obama work with Hamas when their political agenda continue to see to the total destruction of Israel ?
Seizing opportunity of the moment depends on the willingness of individuals to take action at the right time, and also depend on the individual to have the ability to sense and identify the right moment.
Unfortunately, seizing the opportunity also depend on a set of circumstances available for such actions to be taken.
If none exist, you will have to go out and create that environment - which is what CSJ is doing, and which what the South Africans had done to fight the White Apartheid System, and which Martin Luther King had done to challenge the existing status quo that stubbornly existed for over 100 years in the USA despite legislations passed after the great Civil War in the USA.
Unfortunately, civil disobedience cannot succeed unless there is support - as was seen in the Hongkongers being pro-active to protest Beijing's attempts at interfering in Hongkong affairs despite their self-proclaimed One Country Two System.
In the present Communist environment in Singapore, will Singapore represent themselves - when so few even dare to speak their mind or even search for the truth ?
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CSJ may plea for all he wants but will Obama be bothered?