How does evil originated?
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Originally posted by despondent:
to pinknutri...
u obviously dun understand wad i am saying...u ask wad if we are all born abnormal...can we all be born abnormal without knowing wads normal? can u know the feelings of sufferings without knowing the feelings of joy, happiness and blessings?
until now, nobody has answered me on this...sufferings, blame God...ok, valid...blessings, who/what do we thank? remember without the existence of sufferings, one wun noe wads blessings/no sufferings...
Nobody has lived eternally on earth but we still know that living eternally will be good. That is why everybody hoping to live eternally. You see, there is nothing to compare but we still know what is the best. Do you get what I mean ? I mean there is no need to have something to compare we will still know what is the best.
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if u are one person running the race...are u the winner or loser? how do u determine the winner if there is onli one runner?
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if someone is born wif 12 fingers, we will say he is abnormal...however, if all along humans have 12 fingers, wad would u say of someone born wif 10 fingers? normal or abnormal?
if noe 12 fingers is abnormal cos in all of us is the knowledge that 10fingers is considered normal...so anything contrary to tat is considered abnormal...if u still dun get wad i mean...then nvm...we are on diff frequency...
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
where is the christians reply to my earlier question?
why is it that god find justification to create babies who are borned deformed or intellectual disability? because he willed so, so just live with it?
Your question comes under the broad topic of the problem of evil (which is actually the original topic in this thread). Except you choose to phrase it in very emotive language, which is usually why such questions are very hard to answer because we are usually overwhelmed by the emotions that this topic generates, and disable sound judgment especially when most if not all of us have experienced some form of suffering at one level or another. Maybe you’re trying to use this specific topic to stir up emotional intensity or personally experienced it, but I choose to distance myself from the use of such emotionally-driven examples and address the problem of evil as a general phenomenon, including murder, rape, floods, hate, earthquakes, etc.
First of all, what do you mean by evil? On what basis and by what standard do you call certain things evil? I’m not asking for assertions from you that non theists can make moral choices (I know some of them are moral), but what warrants you to call one choice ‘moral’ and another choice ‘not moral’? To be clear, apart from flipping a coin, what distinguishes these actions within your specific belief system?
Secondly, from that same framework, how do you account for the evil that exists? How do you explain the good that happens?
I’ll stop here for now till I hear from you.
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Originally posted by TTFU:
As for your questions hmm i thik 24/7 can have better answers. But its a belief. Belief needs no answers
I don’t have all the answers.. but I try to give an answer for the hope that I have (1 Peter 3:15).
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
if every religion interpret the truth according to their faith, the world is a messy place to live in with so many conflicting faiths against one another.I have to quote from a learned english man, what he said is true.
" You have to bend the faith to meet the facts or truth " and not vice versa.
so what is the truth? the truth is one I can see, like the sun and moon for instance. these are undeniable facts.
If you accept truth as a something that you can see, can you see your brain? If you can’t see your brain, is it true that you don’t have one then? How do you know the earth is round then? Have you seen it from outer space? Did you see it from photographs? How do you know they’re not doctored?
How do you know what the other scientists tell you are true? Have you repeated the experiments yourself before you accept it as truth? If you haven’t done the experiments yourself and believe what they say, aren’t you believing in their testimony without having “seen” the evidence yourself? Do I smell “faith” here? Why is it acceptable for you to accept their testimonies as “fact” but not for the Christian to believe upon the witness of the early Christians as recorded in the historical gospels?
Can there be truths that you don’t see but are undeniable? How about 1+1= 2? Don’t talk to me about the symbols that are blatantly obvious, no wise person should confuse the symbol for something with the thing itself. Does this equation not hold true even without the visual symbols? Even if I change the symbols, is not 1+1 still =2?
What about the laws of logic? Do you see the absolute and universal laws of logic? I don’t see them in the way I see the sun and moon, can they still exist? Are they still true?
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
I don't believe people simply climb on the bandwagon because Christianity has the largest adherents in the world.
money has the largest adherents in the world, so money is true
can this above statement be true also?
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
money has the largest adherents in the world, so money is true
can this above statement be true also?
What matters most is quality not quantity.
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Originally posted by hasene:
What matters most is quality not quantity.
googoomuck keeps mentioning christianity in terms of large number of followers so it should be / must be correct. i am just giving another analogy.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
googoomuck keeps mentioning christianity in terms of large number of followers so it should be / must be correct. i am just giving another analogy.
In christian teaching it is taught that quality is more important than quantity.. -
Originally posted by BanguIzai:
googoomuck keeps mentioning christianity in terms of large number of followers so it should be / must be correct. i am just giving another analogy.
No i think thats troll. He somehow dont agree with me on omnipotent part, and then he dissappeared when i started logic.
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Originally posted by TTFU:
No i think thats troll. He somehow dont agree with me on omnipotent part, and then he dissappeared when i started logic.
That is a word to describe this, till I remember I will tell you -
Originally posted by hasene:
What matters most is quality not quantity.
yes u r spot on mate. this religion has quantity, not quality sigh.....I couldnt agree with you more.
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Originally posted by 24/7:
<!--StartFragment-->
If you accept truth as a something that you can see, can you see your brain? If you can’t see your brain, is it true that you don’t have one then? How do you know the earth is round then? Have you seen it from outer space? Did you see it from photographs? How do you know they’re not doctored?
How do you know what the other scientists tell you are true? Have you repeated the experiments yourself before you accept it as truth? If you haven’t done the experiments yourself and believe what they say, aren’t you believing in their testimony without having “seen” the evidence yourself? Do I smell “faith” here? Why is it acceptable for you to accept their testimonies as “fact” but not for the Christian to believe upon the witness of the early Christians as recorded in the historical gospels?
Can there be truths that you don’t see but are undeniable? How about 1+1= 2? Don’t talk to me about the symbols that are blatantly obvious, no wise person should confuse the symbol for something with the thing itself. Does this equation not hold true even without the visual symbols? Even if I change the symbols, is not 1+1 still =2?
What about the laws of logic? Do you see the absolute and universal laws of logic? I don’t see them in the way I see the sun and moon, can they still exist? Are they still true?
<!--EndFragment-->
What I meant by can see, is substantiated by science and is common knowledge to all humans as facts, whether u r chinese or indians or englishman or those without religion. u can see CT scan to see the brain structure what, so what talking you.
but when u ask humans, whether god exists, some say yes, some say dunno, some say no, that means this is unsubstantiated by science.
u asking me how do i know the earth is round? omg I think I shall not reply to your question. Is this the best you can come out with
I pass. -
Originally posted by despondent:
if someone is born wif 12 fingers, we will say he is abnormal...however, if all along humans have 12 fingers, wad would u say of someone born wif 10 fingers? normal or abnormal?
if noe 12 fingers is abnormal cos in all of us is the knowledge that 10fingers is considered normal...so anything contrary to tat is considered abnormal...if u still dun get wad i mean...then nvm...we are on diff frequency...
this is called duality, I have no clue if you heard of this before. its like Tao or whatever you want to call it, you have Yin and Yang, ugly and beautiful, high and low etc etc. so normal and abnormal to you is just like duality, in between extremes I see. I dun get what u mean? if that suits you, fine with me. but the issue is still around hello!!! if y ou avoid the question of equality and fairness, then yes we are on a different channel because you either avoid or deflect the question into duality. but no need bothering to explain anymore, because I know equanimity (wonder if you heard this word before) and egalitarian and fairness do not exists in your religion.
its about master and slave type of relationship in your religion if I am being direct. also doesnt make sense a planet can be created in 6 days. this truly exists only in stories. if you tell this to people 2010 years ago, I am sure people then have no problems accepting this. but fast forward 2010 years later, I am afraid this is not so, because people are educated and science and technology are so advanced compared to the society then.
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Originally posted by despondent:
to RoyFang
Allah only loves those who follow and obey Him as compared to the christian God who loves all including those who dun follow and obey Him...u can choose to say the christian God doesnt love all...but i am juz going according to wad is taught in christianity...
u said u read tat Allah loves all ppl? strange then...cos i read in a book tat gies information abt all major religions that Allah onli loves those who follow and obey Him...which means selective love...and that book said that love is not one of his 99 attributes...now i wonder...which source gave the rite info...urs or mine?
You don't get what my previous point is do you?
So are you saying selective love is not love?
In the Jewish Bible, the Jewish God loves only the Jews so love is not an attribute of the Jewish God?
Funny, you are the one who preached to Fairyfairy86 about him viewing Christianity by comparing it with Buddhism right?
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to RoyFang,
but wad abt salvation? by grace or good works? selective love is love but its not all-emcompassing...i wouldnt see the christian God as loving onli the jews in the OT...but then again, like u said, its our individual understanding of the 3 creationistic religions...
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
What I meant by can see, is substantiated by science and is common knowledge to all humans as facts, whether u r chinese or indians or englishman or those without religion. u can see CT scan to see the brain structure what, so what talking you.
but when u ask humans, whether god exists, some say yes, some say dunno, some say no, that means this is unsubstantiated by science.
u asking me how do i know the earth is round? omg I think I shall not reply to your question. Is this the best you can come out with
I pass.obviously it's not the best i have, but with what i have to work with here, e.g. your intellectual capacity and level of reasoning (actually, the lack thereof), it'll have to do for now while I work my way up.
you worship science. In other forums, you seem to be a Buddhist but here, you're like a blind follower of science - you've lost all ability to question and investigate, even the assumptions of your own worldview. The dogma that you're holding onto is whatever that you've learnt or read about in science classes (probably primary sch? high sch maximum?) Science is your authority but you fail to realize that you're inconsistent within your own worldview. If you're closed off to question your own basic assumptions, or the views of other systems of thought, you're cut off from "enlightenment".
The questions i've posed to you are valid. I'm questioning your epistemology (feel free to check up the meaning). Avoiding the question (and passing) simply doesn't cut it for a convincing line of reasoning. Or maybe you fear answering because it'll reveal your unquestioning "faith".
The way i see you making your case ( i wish i could term them as coherent arguments but really they're more rants) is as if at the back of your mind, you're telling yourself "Argument weak, shout here!"
I'll be waiting for a coherent response to my questions on evil and your epistemology, but i don't hold high hopes for you.
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hey 24/7
do u agree wif rooney9 tat i have not answered the qn? juz wanted to get another person's opinion
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
money has the largest adherents in the world, so money is true
can this above statement be true also?
You earn money. You spend money. You don't support money.
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Originally posted by hasene:
In christian teaching it is taught that quality is more important than quantity..In Abrahamic religions, There's quality as well as quanitity.
Jews - very good quality but small in quanitity
Christians - good quality and big in quantity
Both people hve done much contribution to humanity( in science and technology).
In Buddhism, you do a research and tell us what is its quality?
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I am really amazed of the replies given. ask A question, give me B & C answers. I suppose the questions were deflected or avoided, for these replies have just answered my question.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
In Abrahamic religions, There's quality as well as quanitity.
Jews - very good quality but small in quanitity
Christians - good quality and big in quantity
Both people hve done much contribution to humanity( in science and technology).
In Buddhism, you do a research and tell us what is its quality?
when you said the religion has 2 billion followers, people said quantity does not equate quality and now your reply lol. who or what are you so say who got quality? not from the mouth of a troll, that is for sure.
and where did you get the 2 billions from? from google or wiki? and how do you know their source is accurate?
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
when you said the religion has 2 billion followers, people said quantity does not equate quality and now your reply lol. who or what are you so say who got quality? not from the mouth of a troll, that is for sure.
and where did you get the 2 billions from? from google or wiki? and how do you know their source is accurate?
Haha! Got you! The author of loony9 paradox has done it again!
Tsk tsk tsk tsk......based on your logic, if it can be called one, no one should believe what you wrote either. How do we know your source is accurate or even true? Why do you see their view points as superior?......and who or what are you to ask questions?
Put so many malicious posts at one go. That's not efficiency! How many hours have you and your comrades wasted in EH altogether? What have you achieve so far?
Remember when I said that I don't think you are stupid? That's a true statement because you are really stupid!
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Originally posted by TTFU:
No i think thats troll. He somehow dont agree with me on omnipotent part, and then he dissappeared when i started logic.
That's a lie! When did I disappear? I'm still here.
My last post to you is on page 9 of this thread. I did not hear from you since then.
So what if I don't agree with you? You have a problem with that?