How does evil originated?
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Originally posted by Fairyfairy86:
i have heard too many times people saying whatever we do is god's will, like serving in the church etc. anyway i don't argue with you on this. you answer me this question : isn't god knows everything before hand and can predict many things ?According to christains, their god is all knowing and powerful
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Originally posted by TTFU:
According to christains, their god is all knowing and powerful
yes we know that. if we are his creations, how come some human beings are borned with deformity and some with intellectual disability, some genius, some smart and so forth. why the inconsistency sia? I can answer her this question though. because god willed it, so accept your fate. but then its easier said when you are not borned deformed. if you are borned deformed, who do you blame it on?
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
yes we know that. if we are his creations, how come some human beings are borned with deformity and some with intellectual disability, some genius, some smart and so forth. why the inconsistency sia? I can answer her this question though. because god willed it, so accept your fate. but then its easier said when you are not borned deformed. if you are borned deformed, who do you blame it on?
Deformaties can be caused by a multitude of reasons.
The view that we are his creations does not mean we are absolutely perfect . If so, we are all godlike already.
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but if there are not those who are normal, how would we know whats deformed? If there are not those who are deformed, how would we know whats normal? we question why some people are born deformed simply cos we alredi have the knowledge of what is not deformed. Where did tat knowledge originate from? what then is perfection if we know not imperfection? and what is perfection if we know not what is imperfection?
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to fairyfairy
yes God knows all things beforehand but that doesnt mean He must interfere in everything. sth for u to tink abt...we keep focusing on sufferings and natural disasters...this is because we can see them happening...valid...God allowed them to happen. for what reason, only He noes cos only He noes beginning to end...do we noe beginning to end? we can onli judge based on past and present...wad abt the future?
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when God allow certain things to happen, we question: why did He allow them to happen to hurt us? but when he stop us from doing certain things, we question: why is He so controlling and dun give us freewill? contradicting...
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Deformaties can be caused by a multitude of reasons.
The view that we are his creations does not mean we are absolutely perfect . If so, we are all godlike already.
we need not to be perfect but at least we have to be born equal because we are supposed to be his children. why treat his children unequally ? -
Originally posted by despondent:
when God allow certain things to happen, we question: why did He allow them to happen to hurt us? but when he stop us from doing certain things, we question: why is He so controlling and dun give us freewill? contradicting...
can give some examples ? if we have the freewill to control our own fate, no one will suffer liao.
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are we all His children? u asked the same qn that rooney9 asked some time back...we are all his creation but not all are His children...so can we still say He treats all His children unequally? you are conceptualising it as creation = children...so are you saying that the plants are His children?
in christianity, only those who acknowledge Him are considered His children...that is the christian perspective...u are free to disagree with it...
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Originally posted by despondent:
to fairyfairy
yes God knows all things beforehand but that doesnt mean He must interfere in everything. sth for u to tink abt...we keep focusing on sufferings and natural disasters...this is because we can see them happening...valid...God allowed them to happen. for what reason, only He noes cos only He noes beginning to end...do we noe beginning to end? we can onli judge based on past and present...wad abt the future?
if he knows, it is only right to interfere or not to let anything bad to happen at all if it is within his power. didn't many people claimed miracles happened to them and they got cured because they prayed to god. god is interfering isn't it ?
can you think of anything positive for the future when natural disasters and sufferings happen ? well, i know you are going to say we are humans, we cannot comprehend god, don't use human's judgement to judge god or he will not call god.
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u sure if we are given freewill, we wun suffer? i give u the eg of the civil law...freewill would mean the govt removing the civil laws...how do u tink the nation will be like?
the reason for all these disputes is cos freewill is defined differently and while we can accept civil laws, we find it hard to accept God's laws...reason is simple...civil laws are made by fellow humans who are imperfect but God's laws are made by a perfect God. so which do u tink appears more acceptable and easy to meet?
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Originally posted by despondent:
are we all His children? u asked the same qn that rooney9 asked some time back...we are all his creation but not all are His children...so can we still say He treats all His children unequally? you are conceptualising it as creation = children...so are you saying that the plants are His children?
in christianity, only those who acknowledge Him are considered His children...that is the christian perspective...u are free to disagree with it...
ok, assume what you said was correct. so he at least must treat his children (those who believe in him) equally but this is also not the case. some christians are rich, some are poor, some are in good health and some are not etc. why ?
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Originally posted by Fairyfairy86:
we need not to be perfect but at least we have to be born equal because we are supposed to be his children. why treat his children unequally ?Because his children also chose to be treated differently.
Lets not look at the icing n outset of it and instead look at the reasons behind it.
I cant tell you why the children were born with deformaties, but I can tell you that most of these deformaties are caused by ourselves. Wars , bombs and accidents aside, some people of karmic faith can say that its your karma, or your parents or grandparents karma upon you?
What then is equal for you ? Equal in God's eye may be spirittheual and not material and physical.
Who are we to say that the disabled are of less value then that of a normal child ? Can a disabled child not be a blessing to himself and to those around him ?To touch others and motivate those that are more fortunate then him ?
Without these disablities, without pain, without suffering, without being poor, how does one experience the opposite ? e.g My parents and thier parents were not as wealthy before but becuase of the pain n suffering they have been through, they appreciate it and made extreme headways now.Like how I never appreciate or know exactly what a poor person feels like. Only after working the volunteer centres n the like can you realise how blessed one is.
You guys only seem to be touching on the very superficial and surface of the issue based on your own principals and religious or non-religious beliefs.
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read one of my posts...how do u noe natural disasters is bad? cos they lead to sufferings and death...but wad is suffering? wad is death? why do we term them as bad? if there wasnt good to compare them wif, how do we noe they are bad? so who do we give credit for these good?
an analogy to help u...a normal person is born wif 10 fingers...but how do we noe 10 fingers is considered normal? cos from the beginning this was so...hence, when someone isnt born wif 10 fingers, we consider him/her abnormal...now, supposedly normal humans are born wif 12 fingers and now u meet someone wif 10 fingers, would u say he/she is normal or abnormal? u would say that teh one wif 10 fingers is abnormal. so wad am i trying to say? there must 1st be a normal standard to compare with...onli when there is comparison then we can noe wads gd or bad. question then is: since we noe wad is suffering, then we must 1st have knowledge of wad is not suffering. but where did we get this knowledge from? did it come by chance? or did it originate from some source? so while we blame God for sufferings, then wad abt blessings? we cannot say blessings dun exist cos if there are no blessings, then how do we noe wads suffering?
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Because his children also chose to be treated differently.
Lets not look at the icing n outset of it and instead look at the reasons behind it.
I cant tell you why the children were born with deformaties, but I can tell you that most of these deformaties are caused by ourselves. Wars , bombs and accidents aside, some people of karmic faith can say that its your karma, or your parents or grandparents karma upon you?
What then is equal for you ? Equal in God's eye may be spirittheual and not material and physical.
Who are we to say that the disabled are of less value then that of a normal child ? Can a disabled child not be a blessing to himself and to those around him ?To touch others and motivate those that are more fortunate then him ?
Without these disablities, without pain, without suffering, without being poor, how does one experience the opposite ? e.g My parents and thier parents were not as wealthy before but becuase of the pain n suffering they have been through, they appreciate it and made extreme headways now.Like how I never appreciate or know exactly what a poor person feels like. Only after working the volunteer centres n the like can you realise how blessed one is.
You guys only seem to be touching on the very superficial and surface of the issue based on your own principals and religious or non-religious beliefs.
i read a bit on karma. the explanation is not the grandparents or parents karma upon them but it is individual karma (same karma) that brought them together. there are also cases that people born in the same family but not afffected. anyway not the place to discuss here, here is eh.
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
I cant tell you why the children were born with deformaties, but I can tell you that most of these deformaties are caused by ourselves. Wars , bombs and accidents aside, some people of karmic faith can say that its your karma, or your parents or grandparents karma upon you?
These deformities were caused by ourselves?
What about babies born with deformities from healthy parents?
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
These deformities were caused by ourselves?
What about babies born with deformities from healthy parents?
The main question is do u view a disabled child as of less value then a child born free of deformities ?
If you think a disabled child is of less value, you may imply that giving birth to life is itself not a blessing. And only a blessing when its a normal child free of all deformaties.
When I say ourselves, it can be a multitude of reasons. From basic genetic defects, to the things we do, consume.... etc resulting in the defects.
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hey badzmaro...how come i can understand everything u are saying ah? is it cos i an a genius or i know someone whom some ppl here dun?
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Originally posted by despondent:
hey badzmaro...how come i can understand everything u are saying ah? is it cos i an a genius or i know someone whom some ppl here dun?
because you all come from the same "school", taught by the same "teacher". i'm being very courteous, didn't i ?
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
The main question is do u view a disabled child as of less value then a child born free of deformities ?
If you think a disabled child is of less value, you may imply that giving birth to life is itself not a blessing. And only a blessing when its a normal child free of all deformaties.
When I say ourselves, it can be a multitude of reasons. From basic genetic defects, to the things we do, consume.... etc resulting in the defects.
if you see the child is suffering, you call that a blessing ?
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But to sit idly by and allow one to be consumed by that evil -- that, I think, is an evil in itself.
So why even create humans in the first place ?
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Originally posted by Fairyfairy86:
if you see the child is suffering, you call that a blessing ?
Life itself is a blessing.
Whether or not the child is suffering is not a matter of fact to be decided by us.
Maybe u are more concerned with the physical disabilities then the more spiritual or disabilities of the one's ownself.
Most times, those that are of disabled have touched,motivated, those around him and beyond more so then those who are without disabilities.
Cant that also be called a blessing ?
Anyways, its up to whether you want to see the advantages through the disadvantages rather then just its disadvantages alone.
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I'll clear one thing up, About free will. God may be omnipotent and omnipresent, but in no way is he an illogical being. You cannot be omnipotent if you create beings of free will, because if you do, then you do not grant true free will among your creations.
The easiest way to see this is if you had a child, in all possible circumstances YOU MAY guide your child to grow up in a certain fashion, directing your child's thought process, but in the process you are constantly interfering with the child's own ability to decide on his or her own. Why do you think it is always taboo in all those movies about God about the infringement of free will? If God wanted to create creatures of free will, then he can no longer truly remain as omnipotent as he once was, he gave part of that up the moment he created humans.
People who say God is omnipotent and omnipresent do not clearly think about all the contradictions that rise with it and then we come into a full circle argument of how God is full of holes, when in fact the original statement is the one full of holes because most people can't see why he gave humans free will in the first place. -
just stating one fact, Christians means those who had the holy spirit in them, where the holy spirit cannot and will not depart, so i feel that it is funny for such a term ex-christians where they are not christians at first..lol
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
The main question is do u view a disabled child as of less value then a child born free of deformities ?
If you think a disabled child is of less value, you may imply that giving birth to life is itself not a blessing. And only a blessing when its a normal child free of all deformaties.
When I say ourselves, it can be a multitude of reasons. From basic genetic defects, to the things we do, consume.... etc resulting in the defects.
I agree with you on your second paragrah.
And yes, genetic defects and etc can result in babies with deformities.
But genetic defects... seems to imply that the creator included genetic defects in his/her creations. Well, that's how I see it.
Originally posted by Fairyfairy86:because you all come from the same "school", taught by the same "teacher". i'm being very courteous, didn't i ?
Worse he might say he posses the knowledge of a logic that other humans can't understand
