Pastor poked fun at Chinese beliefs
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Jun 15, 2010
ISD looks into clip of sermon which mocked Taoist beliefs
New Creation Church apologises and asks YouTube to remove it
A 10-minute audio clip was posted on YouTube last Friday. In it, a church pastor, Mr Mark Ng (above), can be heard joking with the congregation about Chinese rituals. In one instance, he compared praying to Taoist deities to 'seeking protection from secret society gangsters'. -- PHOTO: YOUTUBE
http://www.straitstimes.com/PrimeNews/Story/STIStory_540305.html
THE Internal Security Department (ISD) has looked into an incident involving the New Creation Church over a 2008 sermon being circulated online that mocks Taoist beliefs.
The 10-minute audio clip was posted on YouTube last Friday. In it, a church pastor, Mr Mark Ng, can be heard joking with the congregation about Chinese rituals; in one instance, he compared praying to Taoist deities to 'seeking protection from secret society gangsters'.
The Ministry of Home Affairs said yesterday in a response to queries from The Straits Times that the church had, on its own accord, contacted YouTube to remove the clip. It has also apologised.
'We are aware of the case. ISD has looked into it and taken up the matter with the New Creation Church.'
In a six-paragraph letter posted on its website on Sunday, New Creation said that Mr Ng, who heads the church's Chinese ministry, did not intend for his comments to be disrespectful to other faiths.
It added that earlier this year, the church had reviewed its archive of sermons and had stopped reproducing that particular sermon and other insensitive content that had been previously sold in the church bookstore.
'We recognise our responsibility in this major oversight in allowing this sermon not only to be preached, but also, as a usual practice, to be made available as a resource for sale,' the 20,000-strong independent church said.
'It is unfortunate that while we have endeavoured in every way to stop the circulation of this sermon, its recent appearance on the Internet continues to possibly cause offence.
'We would like to express our deepest apologies to any person who may have been offended by the remarks made by Pastor Mark Ng.'
The user who uploaded the New Creation clip declined to identify himself, but told The Straits Times in an e-mail interview that he hoped to raise public awareness on preaching styles that were disrespectful to other faiths.
'If such preaching continues unabated, it would definitely be trouble for multiracial and multi-religious Singapore,' said the 37-year-old Singaporean man, who uses the nickname 'happyman4072' on YouTube.
The clip has since been re-posted on more than a dozen websites, including Stomp!, tech forum hardwarezone.com and social networking site Facebook.
On YouTube, it has been viewed about 4,000 times.
In February, the founder and senior pastor of another independent church, Lighthouse Evangelism, was censured for making comments that were insensitive to Buddhist and Taoist believers.
Mr Rony Tan, 64, mocked the religious precepts, such as reincarnation and nirvana. His remarks were recorded on video and uploaded on the church's website.
In days, the video clips were re-posted on YouTube and online forums.
Mr Tan was interviewed by the ISD and has since recanted and apologised for his remarks.
Mr Ng, who is 48 and married, could not be reached for comment.
The church, however, said on his behalf: 'Pastor Mark offers his unreserved and unmitigated apology to the public for his insensitive comments... He humbly appeals to those whom he has offended to forgive him for this serious indiscretion.'
The user who uploaded the clip said he had received CDs containing the sermon last month from a church-goer, presumably from New Creation.
'I am pretty sure that he didn't realise that these kind of recordings could give offence to others. Perhaps that could be the problem in our society right now?'
He added that he was not religious and did not subscribe to any faith.
Taoist Federation chairman Tan Thiam Lye yesterday called on religious leaders to start paying more attention to what they say during services.
He said: 'Such comments do not promote religious harmony - that is obvious. There is just no need to criticise other religions when promoting your own faith.'
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In a six-paragraph letter posted on its website on Sunday, New Creation said that Mr Ng, who heads the church's Chinese ministry, did not intend for his comments to be disrespectful to other faiths.
The church, however, said on his behalf: 'Pastor Mark offers his unreserved and unmitigated apology to the public for his insensitive comments... He humbly appeals to those whom he has offended to forgive him for this serious indiscretion.'
This fellow has been marked! He is a leader and for a leader to say such a thing as his comments are not intended to be disrespectful to other faiths is bullshit and irresponsible. If he is a 3 year old, we can understand. He is 48 year old and married with kids. cbkia really!!
If his apology is sincere he would apology upfront, why shun away from media to apologise???
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another warning given to this pasta by ISD, just like Rony Tan's warning?
if this is not seditious, I dunno what is man, esp a religious leader of a well known church in Spore. How can NCC dunno what their pastors were preaching to the followers on sunday service. they must have think there is nothing wrong in it. I am sure he and Rony Tan are not the only pastors preaching this to their followers, there are plenty of these pastors in spore, this I am very sure.
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well is he apology sincere and repentent, like Rony Tan?
hell no. they are still unrepentent and insincere, for they still hold to their views in their mind. they are being forced to apologise, make no mistake about that.
you see lar, if you dun come down hard on these pastors, a few months down the road, you will hear another pastor with the same comments. you need to punish these people so hard that in future, they will think twice before uttering such irresponsible comments.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
another warning given to this pasta by ISD, just like Rony Tan's warning?
if this is not seditious, I dunno what is man, esp a religious leader of a well known church in Spore. How can NCC dunno what their pastors were preaching to the followers on sunday service. they must have think there is nothing wrong in it. I am sure he and Rony Tan are not the only pastors preaching this to their followers, there are plenty of these pastors in spore, this I am very sure.
Dude, you hit the nail on the head. To them there is nothing wrong with regards to the bible of what is spoken about these religions.I believe other christian pastors in other countries preach the same, too.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
well is he apology sincere and repentent, like Rony Tan?
hell no. they are still unrepentent and insincere, for they still hold to their views in their mind. they are being forced to apologise, make no mistake about that.
you see lar, if you dun come down hard on these pastors, a few months down the road, you will hear another pastor with the same comments. you need to punish these people so hard that in future, they will think twice before uttering such irresponsible comments.
They are not sincere in apologising. In all these shit, it is also arrogance that motivated them to act this way. Arrogance is a sin in christanity and God does not like arrogance. This is mentioned lots of times in the bible.
Unless I remember wrongly, there was no mention about Jesus did the same like these pastors when he met with other religious leaders.
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Originally posted by hasene:
Dude, you hit the nail on the head. To them there is nothing wrong with regards to the bible of what is spoken about these religions.I believe other christian pastors in other countries preach the same, too.
that is what is so scary in their world view. everything is about god, satan, heaven and hell. anything that is not within the confines of their faith, it must be satanic, period. I pity them for being trapped in their own paradigm. its like an opiate to them.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
that is what is so scary in their world view. everything is about god, satan, heaven and hell. anything that is not within the confines of their faith, it must be satanic, period. I pity them for being trapped in their own paradigm. its like an opiate to them.
Thank goodness I am out of it. hip hip hooray! YOu know what - my good friend refused to enter my house she kept having imagination that my mum has placed idol of guan yin in my house. She just stood outside my house unit and refused to come in. This same person displayed a nasty and bullying character. Usually those nice ones don't react this way. -
Originally posted by hasene:
Thank goodness I am out of it. hip hip hooray! YOu know what - my good friend refused to enter my house she kept having imagination that my mum has placed idol of guan yin in my house. She just stood outside my house unit and refused to come in. This same person displayed a nasty and bullying character. Usually those nice ones don't react this way.
I am not surprised to jhear that. next time, you can also behaved like her. when u go to her house, you tell her, you also refuse to go in when you saw crosses or images/idols of Jesus, Mary or god?these people are staining their religion, by these small little despicable acts and behaviours. instead of promoting their faith to other people, what they are doing is the opposite way, ie putting off people. no wonder a lot of people doesnt have good impression of their faith.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
I am not surprised to jhear that. next time, you can also behaved like her. when u go to her house, you tell her, you also refuse to go in when you saw crosses or images/idols of Jesus, Mary or god?these people are staining their religion, by these small little despicable acts and behaviours. instead of promoting their faith to other people, what they are doing is the opposite way, ie putting off people. no wonder a lot of people doesnt have good impression of their faith.
I have no chance to do as you say - she does not have any of the images of the mentioned names. Moreover, I have dumped her as a friend due to a couple of reasons. She is typical of those nasty christians who acts a bully. Out of concern, I called her to find out how she was getting on, when she heard my voice she just yelled and shouted. She is another bastardic frustrated woman, at that time cannot get bf to marry her and vent frustration on me. one of the reasons she did this is that she has been harhouring jealousy against me. -
Originally posted by hasene:
I have no chance to do as you say - she does not have any of the images of the mentioned names. Moreover, I have dumped her as a friend due to a couple of reasons. She is typical of those nasty christians who acts a bully. Out of concern, I called her to find out how she was getting on, when she heard my voice she just yelled and shouted. She is another bastardic frustrated woman, at that time cannot get bf to marry her and vent frustration on me.which guy can stand her ways, not even christian guys I suppose lol. I am wondering if religion play a part to what she is today. yes this kind of friend can disassociate.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
which guy can stand her ways, not even christian guys I suppose lol. I am wondering if religion play a part to what she is today. yes this kind of friend can disassociate.
she is not the only christian who behaves irrationally to vent frustrations as and when she likes. Another bitch from the same church behaved the same, also no bf and frustrated. These sickos simply put aside what they learned from the bible when they want to bully others. Pui! -
Look at the guy's face. An abomination of an ugly male and female.
I have my right of speech and opinions. And they tells me so
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Originally posted by troublemaker2005:
Look at the guy's face. An abomination of an ugly male and female.
I have my right of speech and opinions. And they tells me so
He has got the qian bian face, same type as Lee Guohuang -
Originally posted by hasene:
she is not the only christian who behaves irrationally to vent frustrations as and when she likes. Another bitch from the same church behaved the same, also no bf and frustrated. These sickos simply put aside what they learned from the bible when they want to bully others. Pui!if people dun respect you, then there is no need for you to respect them also.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
if people dun respect you, then there is no need for you to respect them also.
I will still give them some grace period afterwhich still no change I will do something or just throw them away in the rubbish bins. Now I am trying my best not to make friends with christians, my luck is no good keep meeting nasty christians. Ironically, I meet many sincere and pleasant buddhist friends and friends from other religions -
Originally posted by hasene:
I will still give them some grace period afterwhich still no change I will do something or just throw them away in the rubbish bins. Now I am trying my best not to make friends with christians, my luck is no good keep meeting nasty christians. Ironically, I meet many sincere and pleasant buddhist friends and friends from other religionslast time I was too nice to christian. now if they dare to say I will go to hell or you are praying to an idol, I tell them to hell with you. I will tell them, you seen heaven or hell before, any proof? if not, get the hell out of here.I will tell them the cross is made of metal, so why pray to a metal?
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
last time I was too nice to christian. now if they dare to say I will go to hell or you are praying to an idol, I tell them to hell with you. I will tell them, you seen heaven or hell before, any proof? if not, get the hell out of here.I will tell them the cross is made of metal, so why pray to a metal?
Christians do not pray to a cross. They don't believe in praying to any object or statue. To them God is spirit and they can pray any where and any time.I am still learning how to handle them.
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Originally posted by hasene:
Christians do not pray to a cross. They don't believe in praying to any object or statue. To them God is spirit and they can pray any where and any time.I am still learning how to handle them.
but then buddhists also do not worship or pray to idols. did they bother to find out?
I am just paying them back with their own medicine, you see.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
but then buddhists also do not worship or pray to idols. did they bother to find out?
I am just paying them back with their own medicine, you see.
AS an ex christian i know that they take bowing to statue to buddha as worship.
Any way, I am so glad I am out of it. Out of the shit.
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Originally posted by hasene:
AS an ex christian i know that they take bowing to statue to buddha as worship.
Any way, I am so glad I am out of it. Out of the shit.
thats why I said they are a frog in the well. there are so many things too abstract and subtle for them to understand anyway, never mind this.
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Singapore EVIL
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
thats why I said they are a frog in the well. there are so many things too abstract and subtle for them to understand anyway, never mind this.
YOu have a point. I realise this only after I left the faith. When I start to read about buddhism it is completely an eye opener to me. -
Come on its omodern society. people cross marry cross culture. religions have to dolikewise its a cosmoplitan world out there. why can't christians go to non-christian temples why can't non-christians comment on what pastor said which may not be true or appropriate?
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Originally posted by hasene:
YOu have a point. I realise this only after I left the faith. When I start to read about buddhism it is completely an eye opener to me.go read dependent origination, it is akin to relativity. all things arose from a cause. if there is no cause, there is no arising.