LoL..
I mean its definately an alternate view on his part.. in his opinion.
But... read both sides of the comments, they explain more then how I want to express my views on it.
It just makes me wonder if he really is unbiased , how come NO mention of anything positive ? Unless the positive's are all mentioned in the his rejection of the so called " consensus and authorities " ,
then if that is so, how do we weight out in the end of the day whether she did MORE good or MORE harm ?
Just a thought.
He has his bias and views for sure, a little to extreme i think.
which atheist have done what she did or come even close?
Originally posted by BadzMaro:LoL..
I mean its definately an alternate view on his part.. in his opinion.
But... read both sides of the comments, they explain more then how I want to express my views on it.
It just makes me wonder if he really is unbiased , how come NO mention of anything positive ? Unless the positive's are all mentioned in the his rejection of the so called " consensus and authorities " ,
then if that is so, how do we weight out in the end of the day whether she did MORE good or MORE harm ?
Just a thought.
Perhaps, she did do some substantial good by improving the lives of those in the slums, the argument here is that religion is the driving force behind this? One question I would like to ask is that since Christians believe that the next life will be better when you suffer on earth, why even bother to help those dying in the slums? A desire to gain points on what some would call the entry to heaven merit system?
hey, since when do christians believe that the next life will be betta when u suffer on earth? are u referring to rebirth? tat has nvr been a teaching of christianity...
Originally posted by despondent:hey, since when do christians believe that the next life will be betta when u suffer on earth? are u referring to rebirth? tat has nvr been a teaching of christianity...
Sorry, I meant life in heaven.
still, it was never Christian teaching that "life in heaven will be better when you suffer on earth"....
doing good is never about any merit system and certainly has no such thing as "A desire to gain points on what some would call the entry to heaven merit system?"
doing good is what God wants his followers to do and is what is preached in the Bible...not prosperity and the bunch of twisted issues that are circulating around...
what she did was definitely religion driven or in her case, really God driven.....what else could it be? she is just a shining example of one that believed in, trusted and have complete faith in God doing what she has been tasked to do.
as the Bible said :"So you can see that his faith was working together with his deeds; his faith became perfect by what he did."
think above also explained the "why even bother to help those dying in the slums?" which really are the people that God wants to reach out to and help....through His people..
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Perhaps, she did do some substantial good by improving the lives of those in the slums, the argument here is that religion is the driving force behind this? One question I would like to ask is that since Christians believe that the next life will be better when you suffer on earth, why even bother to help those dying in the slums? A desire to gain points on what some would call the entry to heaven merit system?
I dont think there is this merit system. If one has this merit perception, in the eyes of the Almighty, doing it for such "credit" doesnt really work like that
I have always been wondering about the subtleties of a purpose-driven life vs a spirit led life.
" When we talk about suffering,Christian believers are not immune from suffering. In fact, sometimes it seems that sincere Christian believers suffer more than others! God has promised us many things, but He has not promised us immunity from suffering in this life. "Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all." (Psalm 34:19). "Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution." (2 Timothy 3:12). Suffering will be a reality for us in one form or another until Jesus returns. "
The issue of suffering is a complex one, since there are many kinds of suffering, many possible reasons for each kind, and often many perplexing mysteries. Our faith in the goodness of God may be tested through sufferings, and our responses to suffering in this life have the potential to make us or break us.
"When we suffer, our response is very important. We need to remember that God still loves us, and while there is life, there is hope. The subject of our response to suffering needs to be explored further and developed with further teaching. Briefly, if you are suffering because of your sins, repent.
If you are suffering because of mistakes, seek to learn and gain wisdom. If you are suffering because of sickness, give thanks to God for His promises and learn how to receive the healing God has for you.
If you are suffering because of the sins of another Christian, confront him or her according to Matthew 18:15-18, forgive him or her and seek wisdom from God.
If you are suffering persecution from unbelievers, offer your suffering to God, pray (James 5:14), give thanks to God and rejoice (James 1:2-5; 1 Peter 4:13)!
You are also called to love your enemies, pray for them, and bless them. (Matthew 5:44).
If you are suffering because the events of life seem to be conspiring to frustrate you, seek God about it, be patient in your wilderness experience and look forward to the promised land of blessings God is leading you into.
Don't allow discouragement and bitterness against God to enter your heart. Learn from the experiences of the children of Israel. Also try to get as many as possible to pray for you and your situation. This will help, but you still need patience."
lol.. I know talking about it is easy, hell, the doing part is a where most of us really fail.
Trapped between the material needs and the spiritual needs, its extremely hard.Who is really willing to give up their all to be with those that have none.
"A lot of our suffering is due to our own unwise choices. But we are actually guaranteed by God that we will suffer persecution if we truly want to live for Him. Sickness and disease - both physical and emotional - can generally be overcome in this life by faith in God, but suffering will remain part of our lives on and off until we pass beyond this temporal existence into what God has prepared for those who love Him."
Above is mostly cut n paste from here.
But looking at Mother Teresa's point of view, she was driven by the teaching of Jesus, to simply "help the unfortunate".
Even if the driving force was religion, her being there is already testament, that belief gives her that much faith to persevere and continue doing what she did for a long time. And doing what she did also shows that religion allows one to continue doing what that really believe in when forsaken by the rest of the world.
Its an issue of whether the cup is half full or half empty....blessings and sufferings both exist...but some religions teach more on sufferings(like buddhism) while religions like christianity teaches more on blessings although it does not deny the existence of sufferings...so one says the cup is half empty, the other says the cup is half full...
In this forum I've mentioned before, although not about Mother Theresa and not about her in particular.
Whether Christian or not, or whatever faith or non-faith, we should be thankful for someone who actually made the effort to help out other people. Although it wasn't her aim to, she has served as an inspiration not only while she was alive but even all these years after her death.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:I dont think there is this merit system. If one has this merit perception, in the eyes of the Almighty, doing it for such "credit" doesnt really work like that
I have always been wondering about the subtleties of a purpose-driven life vs a spirit led life.
" When we talk about suffering,Christian believers are not immune from suffering. In fact, sometimes it seems that sincere Christian believers suffer more than others! God has promised us many things, but He has not promised us immunity from suffering in this life. "Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all." (Psalm 34:19). "Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution." (2 Timothy 3:12). Suffering will be a reality for us in one form or another until Jesus returns. "
The issue of suffering is a complex one, since there are many kinds of suffering, many possible reasons for each kind, and often many perplexing mysteries. Our faith in the goodness of God may be tested through sufferings, and our responses to suffering in this life have the potential to make us or break us.
"When we suffer, our response is very important. We need to remember that God still loves us, and while there is life, there is hope. The subject of our response to suffering needs to be explored further and developed with further teaching. Briefly, if you are suffering because of your sins, repent.
If you are suffering because of mistakes, seek to learn and gain wisdom. If you are suffering because of sickness, give thanks to God for His promises and learn how to receive the healing God has for you.
If you are suffering because of the sins of another Christian, confront him or her according to Matthew 18:15-18, forgive him or her and seek wisdom from God.
If you are suffering persecution from unbelievers, offer your suffering to God, pray (James 5:14), give thanks to God and rejoice (James 1:2-5; 1 Peter 4:13)!
You are also called to love your enemies, pray for them, and bless them. (Matthew 5:44).
If you are suffering because the events of life seem to be conspiring to frustrate you, seek God about it, be patient in your wilderness experience and look forward to the promised land of blessings God is leading you into.
Don't allow discouragement and bitterness against God to enter your heart. Learn from the experiences of the children of Israel. Also try to get as many as possible to pray for you and your situation. This will help, but you still need patience."
lol.. I know talking about it is easy, hell, the doing part is a where most of us really fail.
Trapped between the material needs and the spiritual needs, its extremely hard.Who is really willing to give up their all to be with those that have none.
"A lot of our suffering is due to our own unwise choices. But we are actually guaranteed by God that we will suffer persecution if we truly want to live for Him. Sickness and disease - both physical and emotional - can generally be overcome in this life by faith in God, but suffering will remain part of our lives on and off until we pass beyond this temporal existence into what God has prepared for those who love Him."
Above is mostly cut n paste from here.
But looking at Mother Teresa's point of view, she was driven by the teaching of Jesus, to simply "help the unfortunate".
Even if the driving force was religion, her being there is already testament, that belief gives her that much faith to persevere and continue doing what she did for a long time. And doing what she did also shows that religion allows one to continue doing what that really believe in when forsaken by the rest of the world.
Yes, but why help the unfortunate if one believes in Christian teaching, shooting them dead would be doing them a bigger favour, given that you are sending them off to heaven to rejoice.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Yes, but why help the unfortunate if one believes in Christian teaching, shooting them dead would be doing them a bigger favour, given that you are sending them off to heaven to rejoice.
lol
Well, not all the unfortunate believes in Christianity right ?
And its the notion of helping another fellow man.
And to ease the suffering of a fellow man on this earth.
If you think shooting them is the way to go, well, I personally wouldnt associate myself with you, cause if I had cancer, u might just smother me to death.. xD
Originally posted by BadzMaro:lol
Well, not all the unfortunate believes in Christianity right ?
And its the notion of helping another fellow man.
And to ease the suffering of a fellow man on this earth.
If you think shooting them is the way to go, well, I personally wouldnt associate myself with you, cause if I had cancer, u might just smother me to death.. xD
I personally don't believe it, but I am questioning the rationale for this belief system, that not everyone seems to buy what they're selling. In line with this system, by helping him on earth, i am merely prolonging his suffering as a mortal when he could prosper in heaven, in essence, it is harming him.
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:I personally don't believe it, but I am questioning the rationale for this belief system, that not everyone seems to buy what they're selling. In line with this system, by helping him on earth, i am merely prolonging his suffering as a mortal when he could prosper in heaven, in essence, it is harming him.
But the person has to believe.
You dont have to buy what they are selling u know. Its up to you.
The cards are laid out. The hand to help u is there. Whether u accept it or not is really up to the individual.
If you killed him using ur logic.. isnt that worse then murder ? I mean .. what is realy worse then murder. lol!
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:I personally don't believe it, but I am questioning the rationale for this belief system, that not everyone seems to buy what they're selling. In line with this system, by helping him on earth, i am merely prolonging his suffering as a mortal when he could prosper in heaven, in essence, it is harming him.
The goal of Mother Theresa was to alleviate suffering, bring hope and change lives of the destitute. If all else failed, the least she could do was to help him die with dignity.
Better than the idea to leave the destitute alone to die in the slums and to connect human sufferings to bad karma.
Originally posted by googoomuck:The goal of Mother Theresa was to alleviate suffering, bring hope and change lives of the destitute. If all else failed, the least she could do was to help him die with dignity.
Better than the idea to leave the destitute alone to die in the slums and to connect human sufferings to bad karma.
Putting them to sleep would be alleviating their suffering completely
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Putting them to sleep would be alleviating their suffering completely
lol..
I personally dont believe in deciding who lives and who dies. But I definately know that one deserves a chance to live rather then to die.
U can equally say that you can help the christians buy killing them all. Telling them to deny thier faith or die. Pretty simply and straightforward. U get rid of all the christians, while arguing that you are sending them to a better place right ?
I believe that day will inevitably come. But at least the only difference is that the christians will face the barrel of the gun without fear. *BANG*
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Putting them to sleep would be alleviating their suffering completely
This is still a controversial issue here but I'm actually for it. Why keep a person in vegetative state alive by artificial means after medical science has reached its limit? Better send him/her on to see their Maker sooner.
This issue requires the government's deep thoughts before legalizing it. I hope it will consult the public's opinions too.
Originally posted by googoomuck:This is still a controversial issue here but I'm actually for it. Why keep a person in vegetative state alive by artificial means after medical science has reached its limit? Better send him/her on to see their Maker sooner.
This issue requires the government's deep thoughts before legalizing it. I hope it will consult the public's opinions too.
look whose is talking here, its the resident clown!!! what nonsense!!! who do u think you are?
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:Putting them to sleep would be alleviating their suffering completely
You're making a value judgment on the situation. Is suffering completely devoid of meaning or value?
Originally posted by dadeadman1337:I personally don't believe it, but I am questioning the rationale for this belief system, that not everyone seems to buy what they're selling. In line with this system, by helping him on earth, i am merely prolonging his suffering as a mortal when he could prosper in heaven, in essence, it is harming him.
isn't this a false dichotomy? you're assuming that just because a person might be suffering as a mortal, he should be sent to heaven when he will "prosper". You might be ignoring the possibility that his suffering will end soon, the redemption that comes with the alleviation of that suffering might be greater than that suffering itself, or ignoring the possibility that suffering has value in itself as well.
24/7,
wad u said requires personal experience or faith and dadeadman is like some forumers here;believing that things are to be proven and that faith is sth that is controversial...
Originally posted by despondent:24/7,
wad u said requires personal experience or faith and dadeadman is like some forumers here;believing that things are to be proven and that faith is sth that is controversial...
not really. what i've described are the results of faith and i think that forumer had truly posited a false dichotomy (extreme thinking; black or white) without considering the in betweens.
blind faith is controversial, a practice evident in most forms of thought, but Biblical faith is not.. In any case, one needs to have faith first before being able to begin to believe (e.g. when one believes in science, one believes in the testimony of scientists, their senses, or the constancy of the universal laws of nature).
but tats not their definition of faith...i dunno if u noe but i have realised that their definition of faith is different from the christian's definition...to them science dun require faith cos it provable but religion requires faith cos religion is not provable...tat is their opinion of cuz...so unless we can agree on wad faith is, it wil be an endless argument...
Originally posted by despondent:but tats not their definition of faith...i dunno if u noe but i have realised that their definition of faith is different from the christian's definition...to them science dun require faith cos it provable but religion requires faith cos religion is not provable...tat is their opinion of cuz...so unless we can agree on wad faith is, it wil be an endless argument...
so what's the christian's definition of faith? what's their definition?