I've actually noticed that most people with exceptional wisdom or intelligence have trouble accepting god. I'm sure most of you will have read about tensions between the Church and brilliant scientists, mathematicians, philosophers and thinkers throughout history. In so many cases, these great minds have either been persecuted for their alleged "heresy" or silently acquiesced in fear. I've seen it too, in my professors, teachers and colleagues, many of whom grew up in fully religious families but strayed away as they matured cognitively. Other exceptional personalities like Mother Teresa (as seen in another article on this forum) had profound doubts about god. Even numerous stars in Hollywood (the true theatrical talents, not attention whores like paris hilton) have turned to other religions.
I speak through personal experience because I was once christian but i felt that something was inherently wrong with the fundamentals of the religion. Truthfully ask yourself, take away the comforting words of your church mates and pastors, take away the companionship of the congregation, take away the egocentric self-assuredness of "being saved". Now do you still TRULY love your God?
(to all my christian friends out there, I sincerely apologise if you are offended, these are genuine contemplations of mine and I want to seek your opinions with absolutely no ill-intent)
apparently there's no lack of people falling for the 2000 year-old con-job and are still making their monthly contributions to their pastor's bank a/c !
Originally posted by HyperionDCZ:I've actually noticed that most people with exceptional wisdom or intelligence have trouble accepting god. I'm sure most of you will have read about tensions between the Church and brilliant scientists, mathematicians, philosophers and thinkers throughout history. In so many cases, these great minds have either been persecuted for their alleged "heresy" or silently acquiesced in fear. I've seen it too, in my professors, teachers and colleagues, many of whom grew up in fully religious families but strayed away as they matured cognitively. Other exceptional personalities like Mother Teresa (as seen in another article on this forum) had profound doubts about god. Even numerous stars in Hollywood (the true theatrical talents, not attention whores like paris hilton) have turned to other religions.
I speak through personal experience because I was once christian but i felt that something was inherently wrong with the fundamentals of the religion. Truthfully ask yourself, take away the comforting words of your church mates and pastors, take away the companionship of the congregation, take away the egocentric self-assuredness of "being saved". Now do you still TRULY love your God?
(to all my christian friends out there, I sincerely apologise if you are offended, these are genuine contemplations of mine and I want to seek your opinions with absolutely no ill-intent)
Why do you apologise for self flattery?
Originally posted by googoomuck:Why do you apologise for self flattery?
nice try =)
my apologies are only for the possibility that my views might be ill-received.
there is no need to apologise for the views you hold.
Originally posted by Rooney9:there is no need to apologise for the views you hold.
Oh oh......you carry idiot balls again! Cretin!
aiyah, Googoomuck always want to make people fed-up only.
Originally posted by Asromanista2001:aiyah, Googoomuck always want to make people fed-up only.
Gogomuck is satan. he is here to disrupt the thread. he has no credibility whatsoever. I suspect he is a clone of someone here.
Originally posted by HyperionDCZ:I've actually noticed that most people with exceptional wisdom or intelligence have trouble accepting god. I'm sure most of you will have read about tensions between the Church and brilliant scientists, mathematicians, philosophers and thinkers throughout history. In so many cases, these great minds have either been persecuted for their alleged "heresy" or silently acquiesced in fear. I've seen it too, in my professors, teachers and colleagues, many of whom grew up in fully religious families but strayed away as they matured cognitively. Other exceptional personalities like Mother Teresa (as seen in another article on this forum) had profound doubts about god. Even numerous stars in Hollywood (the true theatrical talents, not attention whores like paris hilton) have turned to other religions.
I speak through personal experience because I was once christian but i felt that something was inherently wrong with the fundamentals of the religion. Truthfully ask yourself, take away the comforting words of your church mates and pastors, take away the companionship of the congregation, take away the egocentric self-assuredness of "being saved". Now do you still TRULY love your God?
(to all my christian friends out there, I sincerely apologise if you are offended, these are genuine contemplations of mine and I want to seek your opinions with absolutely no ill-intent)
did you managed to find the inconsistencies of the bible?
This is an extremely good point and it will take alot of time just to disseminate the points accurately.
I think u are viewing it in a very "simplistic" manner.
Does your statement to take account
of a complex range of social, economic and historical factors?
Linking religious belief and intelligence in this way could reflect a
dangerous trend, developing a simplistic characterisation of religion as
primitive, which - while we are trying to deal with very complex issues
of religious and cultural pluralism - is perhaps not the most helpful
response.
I personally share the views of this man, who was, they say, a fairly
smart guy:
"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the
manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty -
it is
this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious
attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man.
(Albert
Einstein) "
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have
expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called
religious
then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so
far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954) "
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of
what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and
actions of
human beings. (Albert Einstein) "
And all must remember that "with faith comes hope, and with facts comes knowledge."
I think its not about believing in God as in christianity's god per se, but believing that there is something of higher being or intelligence. =)
No. albert einstein believed in a notion of god.
i read about how Albert Einstein said that Buddhism is the only religion that people should go for, especially in the modern world...........of course, Buddhism is not a religion at all in the 1st place.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:This is an extremely good point and it will take alot of time just to disseminate the points accurately.
I think u are viewing it in a very "simplistic" manner.
Does your statement to take account of a complex range of social, economic and historical factors?
Linking religious belief and intelligence in this way could reflect a dangerous trend, developing a simplistic characterisation of religion as primitive, which - while we are trying to deal with very complex issues of religious and cultural pluralism - is perhaps not the most helpful response.I personally share the views of this man, who was, they say, a fairly smart guy:
"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein) "
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954) "
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein) "And all must remember that "with faith comes hope, and with facts comes knowledge."
I think its not about believing in God as in christianity's god per se, but believing that there is something of higher being or intelligence. =)
thanks for the much appreciated excerpts! What einstein (and I assume you) espouses perfectly encapsulates my agnostic views on religion and spirituality. There is certainly the omnipotent marvel that is nature, or what einstein calls "the orderly harmony of what exists" and its sheer scale.
To Rooney, I've heard of them!
I think Spinoza's God is taken out of context. he is just using an analogy to illustrate the marvels of universe and for comparison purposes with god.
Originally posted by HyperionDCZ:thanks for the much appreciated excerpts! What einstein (and I assume you) espouses perfectly encapsulates my agnostic views on religion and spirituality. There is certainly the omnipotent marvel that is nature, or what einstein calls "the orderly harmony of what exists" and its sheer scale.
To Rooney, I've heard of them!
so what makes you doubt and ultimately decided to be agnostic?
deiest
Originally posted by Rooney9:I think Spinoza's God is taken out of context. he is just using an analogy to illustrate the marvels of universe and for comparison purposes with god.
U said it.. the marvels of the universe. =D
Dont forget.. we are limited by our own understanding of the mysteries of the universe as we are of the opposite sex. lol
Originally posted by BadzMaro:U said it.. the marvels of the universe. =D
Dont forget.. we are limited by our own understanding of the mysteries of the universe as we are of the opposite sex. lol
I suppose you cant marvel at the universe without the concept of a personal god. why is it that the universe must be operated and functioned by a personal god in order to be orderly?
Originally posted by Rooney9:
I suppose you cant marvel at the universe without the concept of a personal god. why is it that the universe must be operated and functioned by a personal god in order to be orderly?
Personal or not , I personally feel (no pun intended LoL) that where there is order , there is intelligence.
Originally posted by BadzMaro:Personal or not , I personally feel (no pun intended LoL) that where there is order , there is intelligence.
the concept of creationism was a by-product and remnants of the ancient past. we live in the cusp of a post-modern era of discoveries and exploration, and enlightenment. we should move forward instead of backwards.
A scientist with no faith is like a scientist with no passion. If you got no passion, would you still keep on asking? Would you still have that drive to find out more? I'm not saying that they should join a particular religion or whatsoever.
Intelligent people who lack faith in some way is more like robot than he is a human.
the scientist works is his faith, faith that his discovery will lead to a cure, new technology, new knowledge, new innovation etc.
faith in humanism and morality, that is why ethics comes into it.
I know of a scientist who accepted christ as lord and saviour and is teaching in Sunday School.
pure faith.. simple faith.. God exists!
Originally posted by Rooney9:the concept of creationism was a by-product and remnants of the ancient past. we live in the cusp of a post-modern era of discoveries and exploration, and enlightenment. we should move forward instead of backwards.
In the modern world.. we consider ALL choices. =)
We are supposed to be MORE open minded.
Therefore , we cannot forgot the possibilities. Limiting oneself is like already being more close-minded then those who percieve themselves to be the smartest person on the planet.