I always wonder what happen to those people who were born before Jesus Christ and Christianity exists. Where did they go after death. If it is as per what the bible said. They must be in hell now. Is it fair ? Who is to be blamed for dying before Jesus was born.
Why Christianity comes so late, later than Hinduism and Buddhism. So, is it fair that don't believe in God will go to hell ? I wonder those people who believe in this sentence have thought of the many scenerios which make this sentence looks unrealistic and unfair.
http://www.gotquestions.org/before-Jesus.html
Question: "How were people saved before Jesus died for our sins?"
Answer: Since the fall of man, the basis of salvation has always been the death of Christ. No one, either prior to the cross or since the cross, would ever be saved without that one pivotal event in the history of the world. Christ's death paid the penalty for past sins of Old Testament saints and future sins of New Testament saints.
The requirement for salvation has always been faith. The object of one's faith for salvation has always been God. The psalmist wrote, “Blessed are all who take refuge in him” (Psalm 2:12). Genesis 15:6 tells us that Abraham believed God and that was enough for God to credit it to him for righteousness (see also Romans 4:3-8). The Old Testament sacrificial system did not take away sin, as Hebrews 10:1-10 clearly teaches. It did, however, point to the day when the Son of God would shed His blood for the sinful human race.
What has changed through the ages is the content of a believer's faith. God's requirement of what must be believed is based on the amount of revelation He has given mankind up to that time. This is called progressive revelation. Adam believed the promise God gave in Genesis 3:15 that the Seed of the woman would conquer Satan. Adam believed Him, demonstrated by the name he gave Eve (v. 20) and the Lord indicated His acceptance immediately by covering them with coats of skin (v. 21). At that point that is all Adam knew, but he believed it.
Abraham believed God according to the promises and new revelation God gave him in Genesis 12 and 15. Prior to Moses, no Scripture was written, but mankind was responsible for what God had revealed. Throughout the Old Testament, believers came to salvation because they believed that God would someday take care of their sin problem. Today, we look back, believing that He has already taken care of our sins on the cross (John 3:16; Hebrews 9:28).
What about believers in Christ's day, prior to the cross and resurrection? What did they believe? Did they understand the full picture of Christ dying on a cross for their sins? Late in His ministry, “Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life” (Matthew 16:21-22). What was the reaction of His disciples to this message? “Then Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. ‘Never, Lord!’ he said. ‘This shall never happen to you!’” Peter and the other disciples did not know the full truth, yet they were saved because they believed that God would take care of their sin problem. They didn't exactly know how He would accomplish that, any more than Adam, Abraham, Moses, or David knew how, but they believed God.
Today, we have more revelation than the people living before the resurrection of Christ; we know the full picture. “In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe” (Hebrews 1:1-2). Our salvation is still based on the death of Christ, our faith is still the requirement for salvation, and the object of our faith is still God. Today, for us, the content of our faith is that Jesus Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He rose the third day (1 Corinthians 15:3-4).
Question: "Where did Old Testament believers go when they died?"
Answer: The Old Testament teaches life after death, and that all people went to a place of conscious existence called Sheol. The wicked were there (Psalm 9:17; 31:17; 49:14; Isaiah 5:14), and so were the righteous (Genesis 37:35; Job 14:13; Psalm 6:5; 16:10; 88:3; Isaiah 38:10).
The New Testament equivalent of Sheol is Hades. Prior to Christ’s resurrection, Luke 16:19-31 shows Hades to be divided into two realms: a place of comfort where Lazarus was and a place of torment where the rich man was. The word hell in verse 23 is not “Gehenna” (place of eternal torment) but “Hades” (place of the dead). Lazarus’s place of comfort is elsewhere called Paradise (Luke 23:43). Between these two districts of Hades is “a great gulf fixed” (Luke 16:26).
Jesus is described as having descended into Hades after His death (Acts 2:27, 31; cf. Ephesians 4:9). At the resurrection of Jesus Christ, it seems that the believers in Hades (i.e., the occupants of Paradise) were moved to another location. Now, Paradise is above rather than below (2 Corinthians 12:2-4).
Today, when a believer dies, he is “present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:6-9). When an unbeliever dies, he follows the Old Testament unbelievers to Hades. At the final judgment, Hades will be emptied before the Great White Throne, where its occupants will be judged prior to entering the lake of fire (Revelation 20:13-15).
Originally posted by Pinknutri:I always wonder what happen to those people who were born before Jesus Christ and Christianity exists. Where did they go after death. If it is as per what the bible said. They must be in hell now. Is it fair ? Who is to be blamed for dying before Jesus was born.
Why Christianity comes so late, later than Hinduism and Buddhism. So, is it fair that don't believe in God will go to hell ? I wonder those people who believe in this sentence have thought of the many scenerios which make this sentence looks unrealistic and unfair.
Before christianality exist got Judaism. There are jews that believe in God and go to heaven mah.
Judaism is the oldest monotheistic religion.
As for those who never heard of judaism in the old testament and believed in God wad happened to them is debatable.
Theological question.
Originally posted by -StarDust-:
Before christianality exist got Judaism. There are jews that believe in God and go to heaven mah.Judaism is the oldest monotheistic religion.
As for those who never heard of judaism in the old testament and believed in God wad happened to them is debatable.
Theological question.
Therefore, one can say after Christianity, got Islam as the next monotheistic religion down the Abrahamic line ma.
Then how now?
Originally posted by BanguIzai:Therefore, one can say after Christianity, got Islam as the next monotheistic religion down the Abrahamic line ma.
Then how now?
R u a muslim?
Sorry if u r a muslim. We christians believed Jews before Jesus time are saved.
After Jesus came to earth, only those who accepted Christ as saviour are saved,
So before Jesus, jews are saved. After Jesus came, only christians are saved.
Now only those who accepted Jesus as saviour are saved.
This is my view point.
Originally posted by -StarDust-:
R u a muslim?Sorry if u r a muslim. We christians believed Jews before Jesus time are saved.
After Jesus came to earth, only those who accepted Christ as saviour are saved,
So before Jesus, jews are saved. After Jesus came, only christians are saved.
I am not a Muslim and it doesn't matter whether I am a Muslim or not.
I am just pointing out HOW the article can conveniently explain people are SAVED before the time of Christ (through earlier Abrahamic religions) , but conveniently leave out how people are saved after the time of new Abrahamic religions
You see the point?
Originally posted by -StarDust-:
R u a muslim?Sorry if u r a muslim. We christians believed Jews before Jesus time are saved.
After Jesus came to earth, only those who accepted Christ as saviour are saved,
So before Jesus, jews are saved. After Jesus came, only christians are saved.
Now only those who accepted Jesus as saviour are saved.
This is my view point.
Sincerely touching your heart, the above article is = 自圓其説。
Originally posted by -StarDust-:
R u a muslim?Sorry if u r a muslim. We christians believed Jews before Jesus time are saved.
After Jesus came to earth, only those who accepted Christ as saviour are saved,
So before Jesus, jews are saved. After Jesus came, only christians are saved.
Now only those who accepted Jesus as saviour are saved.
This is my view point.
And I believe, with all your faith, any, if not all articles written by Christian Apologetics will be correct because you believe, trust, have faith in & also cannot question G_D, without a doubt.
Any people with contrasting views are CRITICIZING.
Originally posted by -StarDust-:
R u a muslim?Sorry if u r a muslim. We christians believed Jews before Jesus time are saved.
After Jesus came to earth, only those who accepted Christ as saviour are saved,
So before Jesus, jews are saved. After Jesus came, only christians are saved.
Now only those who accepted Jesus as saviour are saved.
This is my view point.
you do not need to argue to these people. Focus our attention towards other more important stuffs. Thanks for the two quoted articles, they are superb, excellent, sheer class. This answers the question completely.
The problem is Bible only gt old and new testament.
Our revelations start with Genesis end with revelations. No more.
Originally posted by SBS n SMRT:you do not need to argue to these people. Focus our attention towards other more important stuffs. Thanks for the two quoted articles, they are superb, excellent, sheer class. This answers the question completely.
Thanks for ur encouragement.
Originally posted by -StarDust-:The problem is Christianality only gt old and new testament.
Our revelations start with Genesis end with revelations. No more.
actually is the bible, rather, have only NT, and OT
Originally posted by Pinknutri:I always wonder what happen to those people who were born before Jesus Christ and Christianity exists. Where did they go after death. If it is as per what the bible said. They must be in hell now. Is it fair ? Who is to be blamed for dying before Jesus was born.
Why Christianity comes so late, later than Hinduism and Buddhism. So, is it fair that don't believe in God will go to hell ? I wonder those people who believe in this sentence have thought of the many scenerios which make this sentence looks unrealistic and unfair.
those fellas now stuck in The Matrix................along with the people that were around before Judaism was around !
they're waiting for The One to get them out...............
to pinknutri
people who lived b4 the times of jesus were judged according to the law and salvation wa by keeping the law, not by grace...whether or not christianity cameb4 or after hinduism and buddhism depends largely on how u define the term ''christianity''...
the Catholic church was established almost 2000 yrs ago after jesus' time...do u consider them christians? the jews have been around since BC years...even b4 buddha was born...do u consider them christians?
Originally posted by SBS n SMRT:you do not need to argue to these people. Focus our attention towards other more important stuffs. Thanks for the two quoted articles, they are superb, excellent, sheer class. This answers the question completely.
Who knows I will become a Christian if you guys can convince me. Just concentrate without understanding and questioning is like what people say 读æ»ä¹¦.
technically the title ought to be before jesus died instead of born, his death was the premise of salvation..
that said, my take on religion is that it's largely cultural, meant only to serve the prople within the cultural context.....
Originally posted by Pinknutri:Who knows I will become a Christian if you guys can convince me. Just concentrate without understanding and questioning is like what people say 读æ»ä¹¦.
Judaism is the world oldest montheistic religion.
Jews before the arrival of christ are saved. After Jesus came, salvation is from Jesus.
As for those living before or in old tastament days who have no acess to Judaism, what God will do to them when they have no chance to have acess to judaism is unknown. Only God knows.
I have answered ur question pinknutri.
Before christianality gt judaism.
Originally posted by Hahaha:):So who save caveman?
Yeah, what about the caveman ? Good question.
so isn't it more obvious that religions are man-made ?
there are ''laws'' that are at work before all these religions and their Creation fairytales............
the Buddha just explained what these ''laws'' are.............
Originally posted by Pinknutri:
Yeah, what about the caveman ? Good question.
http://www.gotquestions.org/cavemen.html
Question: "What does the Bible say about cavemen, prehistoric men, neanderthals?"
Answer: The Bible does not use the term “caveman” or “Neanderthals,” and according to the Bible there is no such thing as “prehistoric” man. The term “prehistoric” means “belonging to the era before recorded history.” It presupposes that the biblical account is merely a fabrication, because the book of Genesis records events which precede the creation of man (namely, the first five days of creation—man was created on the sixth day). The Bible is clear that Adam and Eve were perfect humans from the time of their creation and did not evolve from lower life forms.
With that said, the Bible does describe a period of traumatic upheaval upon the earth—the flood (Genesis 6-9), during which time civilization was utterly destroyed except for eight people. Humanity was forced to start over. It is in this historical context that some scholars believe men lived in caves and made use of stone tools. These men were not primitive; they were simply destitute. And they certainly were not half ape. The fossil evidence is quite clear: cavemen were human—men who lived in caves.
There are some fossilized ape remains which Darwinian paleo-anthropologists interpret as being some sort of transition between ape and men. Most people seem to think of these interpretations when they imagine cavemen. They picture furry half-men, half-ape creatures crouched in a cave next to a fire, drawing on the walls with their newly developed stone tools. This is a common misconception. And as far as Darwinian paleo-anthropology goes, we should keep in mind that these interpretations reflect a peculiar worldview and are not the result of the evidence. In fact, not only is there major opposition to these interpretations within the academic community, the Darwinists themselves do not entirely agree with each other on the details.
Unfortunately, the popular mainstream view promotes this idea that man and ape both evolved from the same ancestor, but this is certainly not the only plausible interpretation of the available evidence. In fact, the evidence in favor of this particular interpretation is lacking.
When God created Adam and Eve, they were fully developed human beings, capable of communication, society, and development (Genesis 2:19-25; 3:1-20; 4:1-12). It is almost entertaining to consider the lengths evolutionary scientists go to prove the existence of prehistoric cavemen. They find a misshapen tooth in a cave and from that create a misshapen human being who lived in a cave, hunched over like an ape. There is no way that science can prove the existence of cavemen by a fossil. Evolutionary scientists simply have a theory, and then they force the evidence to fit the theory. Adam and Eve were the first human beings ever created and were fully-formed, intelligent, and upright.
Originally posted by Asromanista2001:so isn't it more obvious that religions are man-made ?
there are ''laws'' that are at work before all these religions and their Creation fairytales............
the Buddha just explained what these ''laws'' are.............
Are u a buddhist?
Seems to me u alway like to quote Buddha.
Originally posted by -StarDust-:
http://www.gotquestions.org/cavemen.html
Question: "What does the Bible say about cavemen, prehistoric men, neanderthals?"
Answer: The Bible does not use the term “caveman” or “Neanderthals,” and according to the Bible there is no such thing as “prehistoric” man. The term “prehistoric” means “belonging to the era before recorded history.” It presupposes that the biblical account is merely a fabrication, because the book of Genesis records events which precede the creation of man (namely, the first five days of creation—man was created on the sixth day). The Bible is clear that Adam and Eve were perfect humans from the time of their creation and did not evolve from lower life forms.
With that said, the Bible does describe a period of traumatic upheaval upon the earth—the flood (Genesis 6-9), during which time civilization was utterly destroyed except for eight people. Humanity was forced to start over. It is in this historical context that some scholars believe men lived in caves and made use of stone tools. These men were not primitive; they were simply destitute. And they certainly were not half ape. The fossil evidence is quite clear: cavemen were human—men who lived in caves.
There are some fossilized ape remains which Darwinian paleo-anthropologists interpret as being some sort of transition between ape and men. Most people seem to think of these interpretations when they imagine cavemen. They picture furry half-men, half-ape creatures crouched in a cave next to a fire, drawing on the walls with their newly developed stone tools. This is a common misconception. And as far as Darwinian paleo-anthropology goes, we should keep in mind that these interpretations reflect a peculiar worldview and are not the result of the evidence. In fact, not only is there major opposition to these interpretations within the academic community, the Darwinists themselves do not entirely agree with each other on the details.
Unfortunately, the popular mainstream view promotes this idea that man and ape both evolved from the same ancestor, but this is certainly not the only plausible interpretation of the available evidence. In fact, the evidence in favor of this particular interpretation is lacking.
When God created Adam and Eve, they were fully developed human beings, capable of communication, society, and development (Genesis 2:19-25; 3:1-20; 4:1-12). It is almost entertaining to consider the lengths evolutionary scientists go to prove the existence of prehistoric cavemen. They find a misshapen tooth in a cave and from that create a misshapen human being who lived in a cave, hunched over like an ape. There is no way that science can prove the existence of cavemen by a fossil. Evolutionary scientists simply have a theory, and then they force the evidence to fit the theory. Adam and Eve were the first human beings ever created and were fully-formed, intelligent, and upright.
i think given the number of fossils discovered and technological advancement in the field of archeology, there are less doubts about evolutionary events. it is common for christians to dismiss evolution due to the 'lack' of proof but the same christians never ask for the same proof about their god and would gladly accept the absurdity of old testament accounts as its unblemished history, science and politics...
Originally posted by -StarDust-:
Judaism is the world oldest montheistic religion.Jews before the arrival of christ are saved. After Jesus came, salvation is from Jesus.
As for those living before or in old tastament days who have no acess to Judaism, what God will do to them when they have no chance to have acess to judaism is unknown. Only God knows.
I have answered ur question pinknutri.
Before christianality gt judaism.
One more scenerio, Judaism did not spread to China etc. during that time. So how on earth people in China got to know God? So, where did these people (for example) in China go to after death during Judaism era ?