Character of the Christian God
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- Before the anyone gets offended, be assured that I am sincerely looking for answers too.
- Help me understand below verses. THANKS IN ADVANCE!!
- REFERENCE VERSES
- 1 Kings 22:23
- Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
- 2 Chronicles 18:22
- Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
- Jeremiah 4:10
- Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
- Jeremiah 20:7
- O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
- Ezekiel 14:9
- And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
- 2 Thessalonians 2:11
- For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
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This looks like another anti-Christian troll thread to me. To be honest, I do not have any assurance at all that you are sincerely looking for answers. If you claim to be a Christian and ask these questions I would probably give you the benefit of the doubt. But as someone who claimed to have ditch the faith for the host of reasons you gave, I don't buy the "innocent" qualifying remark that you are sincerely looking for answers. It's more like you are seriously trying to undermine the Christian faith in any way you can under the pretense/pretext of sincerely seeking for answers. I can tell if one is sincere or not. And I think there may be others who would agree with my assessment of your posts here.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
This looks like another anti-Christian troll thread to me. To be honest, I do not have any assurance at all that you are sincerely looking for answers. If you claim to be a Christian and ask these questions I would probably give you the benefit of the doubt. But as someone who claimed to have ditch the faith for the host of reasons you gave, I don't buy the "innocent" qualifying remark that you are sincerely looking for answers. It's more like you are seriously trying to undermine the Christian faith in any way you can under the pretense/pretext of sincerely seeking for answers. I can tell if one is sincere or not. And I think there may be others who would agree with my assessment of your posts here.
BIC
I AM SINCERELY looking for answers. Could you explain to me?
You cant just look at every difficult question and think people are purposely challenging you. I know the question is difficult. But I am sincerely looking for answers.
Could we have a meaningful discussion on this?
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BIC?
Any meaningful input for this topic? I really wanna discuss the character of the Bible God.
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I dont have any conclusions yet. Just wanna discuss.
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Ermmm....Tcmc, are those questions why you left Christianity?
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Nope.
I am just curious about the Character of the Bible God, whether it is permissible in Christian Theology for an all-knowing, all-powerful God to "deceive" according to His will.
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Okay....then I hope that some christians will have answers for those difficult questions....
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BIC?
Any meaningful input for this topic? I really wanna discuss the character of the Bible God.
Tcmc,
I think you really wanna bash the character of the Bible God.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
I think you really wanna bash the character of the Bible God.
BIC,
-_- No no. I want to hear what you or any christian has to input.
Please dont assume and use smear tactics.
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tcmc,
i will shift the context slightly if tats ok wif u...i noe some ppl qn tat God said thou shall nt kill yet he is responsible for killing in some parts in the bible...
so let me use the context of killing...was God contradicting himself? nw say for tdy i am sentenced to death for murder...then one day i am escorted to the gallows, this executioner press the button and i get executed...qn: who killed me? the executioner...then is he guilty of deliberate killing aka murder? so shld nt he be sent to the gallows as well? so can i say tat by allowing the executioner to get away, we are contradicting the country's law tat says anyone guilty of murder is to be hanged?
u muz take note, God is the law-giver, he is the one who put the laws in place...the executioner is nt guilty of murder cos he was executing the law, he was given authority to kill the criminal...since God is the law-giver, isnt he like the excutioner/judge who holds the authority?
regarding lying, same thing...who set the law tat thou shall nt lie?
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Originally posted by despondent:
tcmc,
i will shift the context slightly if tats ok wif u...i noe some ppl qn tat God said thou shall nt kill yet he is responsible for killing in some parts in the bible...
so let me use the context of killing...was God contradicting himself? nw say for tdy i am sentenced to death for murder...then one day i am escorted to the gallows, this executioner press the button and i get executed...qn: who killed me? the executioner...then is he guilty of deliberate killing aka murder? so shld nt he be sent to the gallows as well? so can i say tat by allowing the executioner to get away, we are contradicting the country's law tat says anyone guilty of murder is to be hanged?
u muz take note, God is the law-giver, he is the one who put the laws in place...the executioner is nt guilty of murder cos he was executing the law, he was given authority to kill the criminal...since God is the law-giver, isnt he like the excutioner/judge who holds the authority?
regarding lying, same thing...who set the law tat thou shall nt lie?
despondent,
Thanks for responding.
So basically you believe that it is ok for the Bible God to sometimes "cross the line" to fulfill his plans?
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Originally posted by despondent:
tcmc,
i will shift the context slightly if tats ok wif u...i noe some ppl qn tat God said thou shall nt kill yet he is responsible for killing in some parts in the bible...
so let me use the context of killing...was God contradicting himself? nw say for tdy i am sentenced to death for murder...then one day i am escorted to the gallows, this executioner press the button and i get executed...qn: who killed me? the executioner...then is he guilty of deliberate killing aka murder? so shld nt he be sent to the gallows as well? so can i say tat by allowing the executioner to get away, we are contradicting the country's law tat says anyone guilty of murder is to be hanged?
u muz take note, God is the law-giver, he is the one who put the laws in place...the executioner is nt guilty of murder cos he was executing the law, he was given authority to kill the criminal...since God is the law-giver, isnt he like the excutioner/judge who holds the authority?
regarding lying, same thing...who set the law tat thou shall nt lie?
That's an interesting way you put it....
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God noe the beginning to the end...we dun...so when we kill or lie, we do so nt knowing wad the end will be...this ignorance of the end is wad makes lying unjustifiable for us...also, we are nt the law giver or the one who put the laws in their place...God is love, He is also the law...the 10 commandments were given by God Himself...its precisely cos he is all-knowing, tats why he noes when to ''cross the line'' when nt to...we as humans are nt all-knowing, so we dun have the rite to cross the line...
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tcmc
Why waste others' time when you have already made up your mind? Anyway, if you really research sincerely and openly (like you claim you do), you can easily find the real answers to these.
But looking at your track record in this forum, it's highly unlikely.
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Originally posted by despondent:
God noe the beginning to the end...we dun...so when we kill or lie, we do so nt knowing wad the end will be...this ignorance of the end is wad makes lying unjustifiable for us...also, we are nt the law giver or the one who put the laws in their place...God is love, He is also the law...the 10 commandments were given by God Himself...its precisely cos he is all-knowing, tats why he noes when to ''cross the line'' when nt to...we as humans are nt all-knowing, so we dun have the rite to cross the line...
despondent,
Ok I see.
So for christians, you will trust God because to you all, "He knows best"?
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Originally posted by Servant:
tcmc
Why waste others' time when you have already made up your mind? Anyway, if you really research sincerely and openly (like you claim you do), you can easily find the real answers to these.
But looking at your track record in this forum, it's highly unlikely.
Servant,
You have my vote on that!
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BIC and Servant
For this topic I am really looking for answers. Despondent is being very helpful as a christian, and i appreciate it alot.
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Originally posted by despondent:
God noe the beginning to the end...we dun...so when we kill or lie, we do so nt knowing wad the end will be...this ignorance of the end is wad makes lying unjustifiable for us...also, we are nt the law giver or the one who put the laws in their place...God is love, He is also the law...the 10 commandments were given by God Himself...its precisely cos he is all-knowing, tats why he noes when to ''cross the line'' when nt to...we as humans are nt all-knowing, so we dun have the rite to cross the line...
This point is ok for Christians to accept, but for non-christians it'll just mean that God can go against his own commandments whenever he likes it.... Not very encouraging for the non-believers....
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
despondent,
Ok I see.
So for christians, you will trust God because to you all, "He knows best"?
Tcmc,
Perhaps you can think of it this way, evil people do not deserve to be told the truth because they have no moral claim to it. I tend to agree with despondent on this. God knows the beginning from the end. If someone demands you to tell the whereabouts of your sister so that they can rape her, you gonna stick to telling the truth to them and spill the beans on her? What are you going to do? People who are entitled to the truth should be told the truth. But to those who are not deserving of the truth, but hate the truth, they will want to live in a delusion.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
Perhaps you can think of it this way, evil people do not deserve to be told the truth because they have no moral claim to it. I tend to agree with despondent on this. God knows the beginning from the end. If someone demands you to tell the whereabouts of your sister so that they can rape her, you gonna stick to telling the truth to them and spill the beans on her? What are you going to do? People who are entitled to the truth should be told the truth. But to those who are not deserving of the truth, but hate the truth, they will want to live in a delusion.
BIC,
So in other words, there are some situations that would allow us to "sin" or in this case to lie, right?
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to tcmc,
yes in a way cos God is all-knowing and he is the law giver...remember tat in creation, even the laws are created by the creator...cos he noes beginning to the end, he noes the final outcome of every process...
to demon bane,
nonchristians cannot accept cos they dun acknowledge God as all-knowing and as the one who gave the laws...to them, God is beneath the law...but christians believe God is above the law cos he gave the law...
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tcmc,
we are nt allowed to ''sin'' cos nvr at one pt are we above the law...nvr at any pt do we noe beginning to the end...
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Originally posted by despondent:
to tcmc,
yes in a way cos God is all-knowing and he is the law giver...remember tat in creation, even the laws are created by the creator...cos he noes beginning to the end, he noes the final outcome of every process...
to demon bane,
nonchristians cannot accept cos they dun acknowledge God as all-knowing and as the one who gave the laws...to them, God is beneath the law...but christians believe God is above the law cos he gave the law...
despondent
But if you read BIC's answer, there is a situation where it is correct to lie.
And the situation is to lie when someone asks you where your sister is so they can rape her. Of course it's right to lie...and not tell the truth in that situation.
So BIC is correct to say that there are some situations in which its correct to lie.
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Originally posted by despondent:
to tcmc,
yes in a way cos God is all-knowing and he is the law giver...remember tat in creation, even the laws are created by the creator...cos he noes beginning to the end, he noes the final outcome of every process...
to demon bane,
nonchristians cannot accept cos they dun acknowledge God as all-knowing and as the one who gave the laws...to them, God is beneath the law...but christians believe God is above the law cos he gave the law...
So like those crusaders who killed and murdered in God's name, they were in fact sinless and could still go to heaven ?