Originally posted by Tcmc:Every hindu, muslim, jew, christian, taoist, sikh claim that their Gods are true and that miracles are caused by their Gods.
Every religion claim their religious books hold the truth.
Well, they are all the same.
All the same? In what sense?
Originally posted by BroInChrist:All the same? In what sense?
BIC,
All religions talk about Gods, spirits, , miracles, testimonials. All religions quote from sort of religious books. All religions believe in the supernatural.
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC,
All religions talk about Gods, spirits, , miracles, testimonials. All religions quote from sort of religious books. All religions believe in the supernatural.
Then you have to be clear what you mean. A belief in the supernatural is COMMON to all religions, but that does not mean all religions are the same. They don't even believe in the same things.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Then you have to be clear what you mean. A belief in the supernatural is COMMON to all religions, but that does not mean all religions are the same. They don't even believe in the same things.
BIC,
I am saying religions are all the same, in the way I already described to you.
So it's true, they are all the same in the way I described.
All religions also claim their Gods are true.
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC,
I am saying religions are all the same, in the way I already described to you.
So it's true, they are all the same in the way I described.
All religions also claim their Gods are true.
But they are NOT the same in the sense that their claims are the same or are equally true. So it is misleading to say that all religions are the same, which is why there is a need for me to ask you to qualify what you mean by that.
BIC
Like i told you thousands of times, to you your god is the most true. To a hindu his god is the most true. To a muslim, his god is the most true etc.
To you, your god exists. To any other person from any other religion, his god exist too.
Islam is also a faith with an Abrahamic God. Same as Judaism.
Abraham seems to be a figure of some significance...
Here's a perspective (from a Christian):
Muslims believe they are the rightful heir to the promise because they are of the stock of the firstborn son - Ishmael (Ismail). But Ishmael was born from a maidservant, not Abraham's rightful wife Sarah. (Ishmael was born before Isaac)
Jews believe they are the rightful heir to the promise because they are of the stock of the true firstborn son - Isaac who was born as a miracle and fulfilment of God's miracle to let a 99 year old woman bear a child.
Christians believe that Abraham as the father of faith is an allegory to the coming of Christ and his bride. And only those who believe "The just shall live by faith" are true heirs of Abraham. Galatians 3:29 "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Those who are born of the flesh are not heirs, but those who are born of the Spirit are.
How's that for confusion?
So, what's the big deal about "the promise"? It seems like the first born has a divine legal right to the claim of "family inheritance". It seems like a universal spiritual truth, regardless of cultures. Crown princes are ascended to the throne after the king's death by order of rightful inheritance - the eldest son is usually the first to such claim.
The promise is important I guess because of the claim to God's protection, blessing and inheritance. It makes LEGAL claim of "covenant". If heaven were a court of law, it would then make sense to make that claim.
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC
Like i told you thousands of times, to you your god is the most true. To a hindu his god is the most true. To a muslim, his god is the most true etc.
To you, your god exists. To any other person from any other religion, his god exist too.
And to you, ALL are FALSE. Of course you wouldn't admit it because that would not be good PR for yourself.
Originally posted by Joe 328:Islam is also a faith with an Abrahamic God. Same as Judaism.
Abraham seems to be a figure of some significance...
Here's a perspective (from a Christian):
Muslims believe they are the rightful heir to the promise because they are of the stock of the firstborn son - Ishmael (Ismail). But Ishmael was born from a maidservant, not Abraham's rightful wife Sarah. (Ishmael was born before Isaac)
Jews believe they are the rightful heir to the promise because they are of the stock of the true firstborn son - Isaac who was born as a miracle and fulfilment of God's miracle to let a 99 year old woman bear a child.
Christians believe that Abraham as the father of faith is an allegory to the coming of Christ and his bride. And only those who believe "The just shall live by faith" are true heirs of Abraham. Galatians 3:29 "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Those who are born of the flesh are not heirs, but those who are born of the Spirit are.
How's that for confusion?
So, what's the big deal about "the promise"? It seems like the first born has a divine legal right to the claim of "family inheritance". It seems like a universal spiritual truth, regardless of cultures. Crown princes are ascended to the throne after the king's death by order of rightful inheritance - the eldest son is usually the first to such claim.
The promise is important I guess because of the claim to God's protection, blessing and inheritance. It makes LEGAL claim of "covenant". If heaven were a court of law, it would then make sense to make that claim.
Joe,
Unfortunately, you might be unaware, that both muslims and jews do not believe jesus is a kind of Deity. For muslims, the quran goes as far as saying that people who say that jesus is a Deity will end up in eternal fire. I am just quotingthe quran.
Also, jews believe that jesus was misled and misguided.
Originally posted by Tcmc:Joe,
Unfortunately, you might be unaware, that both muslims and jews do not believe jesus is a kind of Deity. For muslims, the quran goes as far as saying that people who say that jesus is a Deity will end up in eternal fire. I am just quotingthe quran.
Also, jews believe that jesus was misled and misguided.
Whereas you and all atheists believe that EVERYONE who is religious is misled, misguided and deluded. True or false? Or bad PR if try to answer?
Originally posted by Tcmc:Joe,
Unfortunately, you might be unaware, that both muslims and jews do not believe jesus is a kind of Deity. For muslims, the quran goes as far as saying that people who say that jesus is a Deity will end up in eternal fire. I am just quotingthe quran.
Also, jews believe that jesus was misled and misguided.
I am aware. Hence the difference between all 3 Abrahamic faiths.
"Jesus" has a VERY insulting name by the Jews. "Yeshua" is often called "Yeshu" by them, which means, "may his name be forgotten".
Muslims view Jesus as a prophet and no more. No divinity involved. Jesus is known as "Isa" in the Quran.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Whereas you and all atheists believe that EVERYONE who is religious is misled, misguided and deluded. True or false? Or bad PR if try to answer?
BIC
Like i told you so many times, many atheists are ok with religious people believing in Gods, spirits and angels. JUst dont go around pushing it as universal fact or replacing science textbooks with Legends.
Originally posted by Joe 328:I am aware. Hence the difference between all 3 Abrahamic faiths.
"Jesus" has a VERY insulting name by the Jews. "Yeshua" is often called "Yeshu" by them, which means, "may his name be forgotten".
Muslims view Jesus as a prophet and no more. No divinity involved. Jesus is known as "Isa" in the Quran.
Joe328,
Knowing that in the quran, it states that belief in trinity is the biggest sin of all, what do you intend to do to try to "save yourself"?
I am not muslim btw. Just curious.
so that brings the question.
if every religion all say their religion is the truth, there cant be so many truths out there isnt it.
Originally posted by Tcmc:Joe328,
Knowing that in the quran, it states that belief in trinity is the biggest sin of all, what do you intend to do to try to "save yourself"?
I am not muslim btw. Just curious.
"The true God will answer by fire"
Sorry if I speak in parables. If you don't understand, it's too bad. Code-speak.
Originally posted by Tcmc:BIC
Like i told you so many times, many atheists are ok with religious people believing in Gods, spirits and angels. JUst dont go around pushing it as universal fact or replacing science textbooks with Legends.
Why don't you answer my question directly? PR issues isn't it?
Again my question below to you is:
You and all atheists believe that EVERYONE who is religious is misled, misguided and deluded. True or false?
Originally posted by Joe 328:"The true God will answer by fire"
Sorry if I speak in parables. If you don't understand, it's too bad. Code-speak.
Joe,
SImilarly, the Quran says that anyone who believes in the "triune deity" will go through eternal fire.
How?>
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Why don't you answer my question directly? PR issues isn't it?
Again my question below to you is:
You and all atheists believe that EVERYONE who is religious is misled, misguided and deluded. True or false?
BIC,
Answer is false.
That's your false perception of atheists.
You live in a black-white, true-false world. Bipolar disorder.
Originally posted by Tcmc:Joe,
SImilarly, the Quran says that anyone who believes in the "triune deity" will go through eternal fire.
How?>
How? You ask me? Why don't you go find out the answer for yourself? I got the answer already.
BTW, your question mentioning eternal fire has nothing to do with the "fire" I mention before. Not the same thing. Sorry... parables... It's up to you to find out what the parables mean.
all i see are personal attacks here... how to have any positive discussions?
Save your breaths la TCMC they wont listen one
Originally posted by Joe 328:How? You ask me? Why don't you go find out the answer for yourself? I got the answer already.
BTW, your question mentioning eternal fire has nothing to do with the "fire" I mention before. Not the same thing. Sorry... parables... It's up to you to find out what the parables mean.
Joe,
Oh ok i thought "fire" in the bible is usually related to painful punishment of unbelievers, which is true in many verses lah.
But nvm.
I just hope you can read more religious texts and find out for yourself the consequences of not believing in the other Gods, so you can make a better decision.
I mean, its just wise and logical to see all sides of something before making a decision.
:)
It's interesting.
All religions claim the existence of an invisible supreme being called god or gods.
All religions claim miracles are done by their respective gods.
All religions claim that their gods answer prayers, pleas.
All religions claim their gods will/might punish unbelievers or "sinful" people.
Originally posted by Tcmc:Joe,
Oh ok i thought "fire" in the bible is usually related to painful punishment of unbelievers, which is true in many verses lah.
But nvm.
I just hope you can read more religious texts and find out for yourself the consequences of not believing in the other Gods, so you can make a better decision.
I mean, its just wise and logical to see all sides of something before making a decision.
:)
So which are the religious texts you have read? What was your evaluation criteria? How long did you take to decide being an atheist?
Originally posted by Tcmc:It's interesting.
All religions claim the existence of an invisible supreme being called god or gods.
All religions claim miracles are done by their respective gods.
All religions claim that their gods answer prayers, pleas.
All religions claim their gods will/might punish unbelievers or "sinful" people.
Tcmc, would you care to confirm if the above statement is true or false?