Do buddhists entertain the idea they mght be delusional abou
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Exactly what the Christians tell you. Believe and accept Jesus and you will know that it is true. Why don't you? Why are you a Buddhist?
The human mind is delusional in nature. You need to verify and validate your assumptions.
How do you know that it is the medicine that cured you and not your body naturally cured itself?
Therefore, you need to read up on the research done on the medicine. Therefore you need objective verification and evidence of your beliefs.
Hi Friend, I invite you to my other posting "Incredible Sightings" to see whether chanting is for real. These sightings usually happen after big chanting events. I take it as response to our chanting from Buddha. No debate please, just invite you to have a look.
Just to share with you these phrases about chanting :
佛法是心法，如果一个佛弟å�ä¸�ä¿®å¿ƒï¼Œå–Šç ´å–‰å’™é¢‚ç»�也枉然。
Buddhism is about practising. It is pointless for a Buddhist to chant without putting into practice.
颂�是颂给自己�的，�是颂给佛���的。�是佛��讲的，�需�我们颂�给佛���。
Chanting is for one to listen and learn. Not for Buddha to listen because the sutra are the words from Buddha. There is no need to chant for Buddha to listen.
Pardon me if my actions do not tally with what I quoted above because I have just heard these phrases. According to the venerable who told me these, it takes years to put into practice.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
You need OBJECTIVE evidence and proofs that "Chanting does create a positive vibration" and not just assume it based on your feelings.
You might think that it is too much trouble to bother with objective evidence and proofs for something as innocent as chanting.
From your experience, how do you determine that your "objective evidence and proofs" are authentic before accepting them?
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
I think that there is enough evidence to show that meditation benefits oneself.
It is the claims like: "Chanting benefits my family, benefits that dead" that causes me to treat chanting as a superstition.
"Chanting benefits my family" Chanting if done with absorption that gives stillness and manifest as calmness and composure to one self and radiates outwards, with those in closer proximity ,eg. family.
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Chanting if done with absorption gives stillness and manifest as calmness and composure to oneself and radiates outwards, with those in closer proximity, eg. family.
"Chanting benefits the dead"
Well, I am not the recipient any chanting as I am not dead, for that matter, neither are you.
Therefore, in order to have conclusive proof that "Chanting benefits the dead", I have to be both dead and receiving chanting, which assuredly,I am not. However, you also cannot conclusively substantiate your disbelief without first being dead, secondly receiving chants.
Let me go to benefits of chanting, that is in this living world, therefore easier to substantiate!
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Chanting benefits the family by stillness and the non agitative mind, radiating calmness.
Chanting to the dead, benefit ourself, arousing kindness. Why do we bother to chant for our relatives, because we have deep attachment and love for them, I am speaking about ordinary people now, and by chanting, the kindness is very easily aroused . Once familiarised, development loving kindness and compassion for others can be easier developed.
We must not only develop loving kindness and compassion, but also helpful ability.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
....about buddhist beliefs?
How do you know that your beliefs are true if you do not demand proofs and evidence for your beliefs?
Just because it is in the sutras? Just because someone claims it?
I like buddhist philosophy because one of the main ideas I gather from buddhism is that the world is an illusion and therefore people should know their own delusions.
Then I notice that buddhist themselves cling on to delusions from buddist beliefs.
Sometimes i do not know if I should pity you or applaud you for posting .
but my heart tells me
you need to have good affinity with Buddhadharma then the rest of the answer will comes to you
so my answer is ...suits you if u want to keep on posting
:)
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Originally posted by bohiruci:
Sometimes i do not know if I should pity you or applaud you for posting .
but my heart tells me
you need to have good affinity with Buddhadharma then the rest of the answer will comes to you
so my answer is ...suits you if u want to keep on posting
:)
why pity or applaud? if you are a practioner, whether insults or praise wont move you one bit in your mind.
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thats why you have to test it and not rely on the sutra or what the Buddha has said. but what he about ignorance, delusions and cravings are true of human nature that prevents people from seeing the true nature of reality.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
thats why you have to test it and not rely on the sutra or what the Buddha has said. but what he about ignorance, delusions and cravings are true of human nature that prevents people from seeing the true nature of reality.
because i not sure his motive is comes with malice [means he will suffer backlash by people ] or applaud [the outcome of his will reform him to become another Pillars of Buddhism ]got it ?
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for a start this is an online forum. second he is responsible for his own comments, as are we, just like karma isnt it. third if he is not a buddhist, why use buddhist speak to him since he doesnt believe it.
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Why do we need scientific evidence or explanation for everything to prove that it exists? Can scientists explain the soul and mind that exist in all living things? If there is no evidence or not enough evidence to prove that certain things exist, it doesn't mean they don't exist.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
for a start this is an online forum. second he is responsible for his own comments, as are we, just like karma isnt it. third if he is not a buddhist, why use buddhist speak to him since he doesnt believe it.
Exactly. You are just like him. Why do you go to EH when you don't believe Christianity.
Get this into your pea brain - We are here because you were there first.
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Good morning googoomuck and a happy new year!
Are you a good christian? Is your conduct and way of talking, comes from being a christian?
Do you know what the meaning of charity(agape) in christianity? As a christian, what does it mean to you? And have you also forgotten to turn the other cheek?
And also, you vocabulary leaves much to be desired!
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Chanting leads to calmness, absorption and samadhi. If you practice it you will know and you will certainly not treat it as a superstition.
Lying again AEN, as I said practice may also lead to madness and hence doctors must be consulted. -
Originally posted by Rooney9:
thats why you have to test it and not rely on the sutra or what the Buddha has said. but what he about ignorance, delusions and cravings are true of human nature that prevents people from seeing the true nature of reality.
Even if you test it, it won't work on all people. -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
....about buddhist beliefs?
How do you know that your beliefs are true if you do not demand proofs and evidence for your beliefs?
Just because it is in the sutras? Just because someone claims it?
I like buddhist philosophy because one of the main ideas I gather from buddhism is that the world is an illusion and therefore people should know their own delusions.
Then I notice that buddhist themselves cling on to delusions from buddist beliefs.
The sight of a human extends outwards, yet the vision of the mind extends inwards. Before thy examine the flaws existing in others, hear thee's own soul.
For the tongue which curls against the world seek the embrace of that which it rants against.
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Originally posted by SevenEleven:
What better evidence than self experience. Are you ready to give it a try? Rather than seeking, I feel that you are looking for a debate.The reason people need objective evidence is.... they are not perfect, they can be wrong no matter how convinced they are, they could make wrong interpretations of their experiences, their mind could be delusional.
Really, the last thing you should trust is your experiences unless you can verify what you experienced objectively.
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
Hi Friend, I invite you to my other posting "Incredible Sightings" to see whether chanting is for real. These sightings usually happen after big chanting events. I take it as response to our chanting from Buddha. No debate please, just invite you to have a look.
Just to share with you these phrases about chanting :
佛法是心法，如果一个佛弟å�ä¸�ä¿®å¿ƒï¼Œå–Šç ´å–‰å’™é¢‚ç»�也枉然。
Buddhism is about practising. It is pointless for a Buddhist to chant without putting into practice.
颂�是颂给自己�的，�是颂给佛���的。�是佛��讲的，�需�我们颂�给佛���。
Chanting is for one to listen and learn. Not for Buddha to listen because the sutra are the words from Buddha. There is no need to chant for Buddha to listen.
Pardon me if my actions do not tally with what I quoted above because I have just heard these phrases. According to the venerable who told me these, it takes years to put into practice.
Why do you limit your posts to buddhist incredible sightings? What about the incredible sightings of jesus and the virgin mary? What about the incredible sightings of aliens and alien spaceships?
What objective verification are provided that the sightings are not from mass delusions?
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Originally posted by Jamber:
From your experience, how do you determine that your "objective evidence and proofs" are authentic before accepting them?
1. It must be objective
That is to say it must be verified independently. That means it must be verified outside your mind, outside what you think, outside of the subject matter.
What is wrong with these answers?
What book is this? "It is the book from god"
How do you know it is the book from god? "The book says so"
How can you trust the book? "The book says you can trust it"
2. Other people can replicate the claims.
Otherwise, how do you know that it is true and it is not a coincidence and the person making the claims are not deluded?
3. It must be logical.
Logic is hard to explain in a few lines and most people have wrong ideas what logic is.
4. It is best if the people making the claims do not have vested interests. If they want you to join their organisation, what they say is highly suspect and you must put what they say to the tests of the first 3 points above.
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Originally posted by Weychin:
Good morning googoomuck and a happy new year!
Are you a good christian? Is your conduct and way of talking, comes from being a christian?
Do you know what the meaning of charity(agape) in christianity? As a christian, what does it mean to you? And have you also forgotten to turn the other cheek?
And also, you vocabulary leaves much to be desired!
agogoboy is a troll who likes to anal kids and guys alike
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Originally posted by Weychin:
Chanting if done with absorption gives stillness and manifest as calmness and composure to oneself and radiates outwards, with those in closer proximity, eg. family.
"Chanting benefits the dead"
Well, I am not the recipient any chanting as I am not dead, for that matter, neither are you.
Therefore, in order to have conclusive proof that "Chanting benefits the dead", I have to be both dead and receiving chanting, which assuredly,I am not. However, you also cannot conclusively substantiate your disbelief without first being dead, secondly receiving chants.
Let me go to benefits of chanting, that is in this living world, therefore easier to substantiate!
You cannot substantiate but you believe chanting benefits the dead anyway? Is that what you are trying to say in this post?
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Originally posted by laurence82:
agogoboy is a troll who likes to anal kids and guys alike
Ah lau forgot to mention ahgogo loves to recieve anti-ship torpedoes up his rectum. -
Originally posted by Weychin:
Chanting benefits the family by stillness and the non agitative mind, radiating calmness.
Chanting to the dead, benefit ourself, arousing kindness. Why do we bother to chant for our relatives, because we have deep attachment and love for them, I am speaking about ordinary people now, and by chanting, the kindness is very easily aroused . Once familiarised, development loving kindness and compassion for others can be easier developed.
We must not only develop loving kindness and compassion, but also helpful ability.
What you claim here of course applies to catholics and hindus doing meditation and muslims praying five times a day or people simply taking a walk to calm themselves down..... nothing to suggest that chanting is anything more than one of the methods that exists and not exclusive to buddhism.
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Originally posted by bohiruci:
Sometimes i do not know if I should pity you or applaud you for posting .
but my heart tells me
you need to have good affinity with Buddhadharma then the rest of the answer will comes to you
so my answer is ...suits you if u want to keep on posting
:)
If you believe in buddhist doctrine of karma, you really think you can escape the consequences selling delusions to other people even if you strongly believe in the delusions you are selling?
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I am too shallow, so no need to take my words seriously.
Yes. I think some Buddhists entertains the idea that their superstitious ways and rules is the correct way of buddhism.
But most of us have to cling to a certain routine or a certain aspect of buddhism (the buddhism they think is true, real or the correct way), since we all are not maybe as enlightened as Buddha.
And yes.....I think most of us is delusional. Because in the eyes of people who are skeptical.
I think all of us is delusional to certain aspect. And it will take Buddhha or God's power of the will to be englightened and 'saved' as they are, which is obvious that us mortal men here discussing this topic, have not achieved.
I believe in honour, self discipline and giving oneself. Respect for those who give theirs....be it for life, meat or whatever reason.
Without those disciplines..... we do not respect the world that God, Buddha is hoping to achieve for us.