Jazz 'round Midnight
-
Rap, Pop, R&B, hip-hop all got their influence from jazz and blues. Are you going to say that 50 cent, Run DMC, James ingram are all jazz band or singer?Originally posted by Gedanken:And in turn, if you know as much about bossa nova as you claim to, you would know that bossa nova was developed as a blend of samba and West Coast jazz. If musical roots are as important as you've stated in Astrud Gilberto's case, then by the same logic bossa nova's roots in jazz justfiably qualify it as a form of jazz.
Btw, Jazz music has got it influence from African rhythm, so why dont you just say that Gilberto is a African tribe singer?
And do you know the Bossa Nova music are all written with a straight four feel, while jazz are all in triplet swing feel? I hope you understand what I am talking about..
-
Your point about the triple swing vs. straight four is a differentiation between American jazz and Brazilian jazz (which covers bossa nova) - are you trying to slip a definition of jazz as being strictly American jazz by me? Shame on you.
Don't get me wrong - I'm just saying that with jazz being so difficult to clearly define, I don't think the distinction is that cut-and-dried. -
Gen, stop trying to talk like you know em all. It is embarassing.Originally posted by Gedanken:Your point about the triple swing vs. straight four is a differentiation between American jazz and Brazilian jazz (which covers bossa nova) - are you trying to slip a definition of jazz as being strictly American jazz by me? Shame on you..
Don't get me wrong - I'm just saying that with jazz being so difficult to clearly define, I don't think the distinction is that cut-and-dried.
1) It is not triple swing, it is tripLET swing. (Do you know exactly what I am talking about?)
2) Straight four or triplet swing does not define which country of origin. Classical music are written in triplet too.
3) Brazilian jazz you mention is a FUSION of brazilian rhythm with american jazz. No one will know what music you are talking about if you say brazilian jazz. *btw, what is your definition of brazilian jazz?? (Something to cook up or got from the internet that you know even know) Or are you simply saying brazilian playing jazz..*
4) You cannot generalized samba, songo, salsa, bossa and etc as brazilian jazz.
It will be more accurate if you refer them as Latin Music, or Afro Cuban music.
5) If we are not talking about amercian jazz music, why did you give us a list of your favourite amercian jazz tune??
- Sonny Criss – Blues In My Heart
- Billie Holiday – Stormy Weather or Solitude
- Dexter Gordon – The Shadow of Your Smile
- Chet Baker – These Foolish Things
- Oscar Peterson – My Foolish Heart
- Frank Sinatra – One For My Baby
6) what exactly was your problem when I say that Gilberto is more of bossa nova singer and than jazz singer? Are you trying to use this as an excuse to impress others with what you know and your taste for fine things in life?
Shame on you!!! WANNABE "Jazz" looser!! -
1) It is not triple swing, it is tripLET swing. (Do you know exactly what I am talking about?)
Hey, made a typo and missed a "t" - bite me.
2) Straight four or triplet swing does not define which country of origin. Classical music are written in triplet too.
Did I say it defines country of origin? I was pointing it out as a difference between American vs. Brazilian jazz. You're the one with rigid definitions, remember?
3) Brazilian jazz you mention is a FUSION of brazilian rhythm with american jazz. No one will know what music you are talking about if you say brazilian jazz. *btw, what is your definition of brazilian jazz?? (Something to cook up or got from the internet that you know even know) Or are you simply saying brazilian playing jazz..*
Agreed - it is a fusion of Brazilian rhythm and American harmonies etc. Of course, given your innate degree of ignorance, you take it that it doesn't exist just because you haven't heard of it - you do that on such a regular basis it ain't funny.
4) You cannot generalized samba, songo, salsa, bossa and etc as brazilian jazz.
It will be more accurate if you refer them as Latin Music, or Afro Cuban music.
And exactly where did I do that? I mentioned bossa nova, and avoided mention of samba as that's too contentious a point. Don't let your imagination run away with you.
5) If we are not talking about amercian jazz music, why did you give us a list of your favourite amercian jazz tune??
- Sonny Criss – Blues In My Heart
- Billie Holiday – Stormy Weather or Solitude
- Dexter Gordon – The Shadow of Your Smile
- Chet Baker – These Foolish Things
- Oscar Peterson – My Foolish Heart
- Frank Sinatra – One For My Baby
Maybe you ought to learn to read - this thread is titled "Jazz 'round Midnight", remember? Just because I listed those tracks (qualified with "within this environment" mind you) doesn't mean that's anywhere near a comprehensive list. Then again, you do have a tendency to take the scrap of information, which is all your head can seem to contain, and run off on some fantasy with it.
6) what exactly was your problem when I say that Gilberto is more of bossa nova singer and than jazz singer? Are you trying to use this as an excuse to impress others with what you know and your taste for fine things in life?
OK, you're slow on the uptake, so I'll say it again. My "problem", as you choose to view it, is that I disagree that the distinction can be as cut-and-dried as you make it out to be.
*sigh* It's pretty sad to see how you make a big deal out of knowing a little bit about something. You really do need to get out more. -
[quote]Originally posted by Gedanken:
Did I say it defines country of origin? I was pointing it out as a difference between American vs. Brazilian jazz. You're the one with rigid definitions, remember?
Quote "Your point about the triple swing vs. straight four is a differentiation between American jazz and Brazilian jazz (which covers bossa nova)"
Agreed - it is a fusion of Brazilian rhythm and American harmonies etc. Of course, given your innate degree of ignorance, you take it that it doesn't exist just because you haven't heard of it - you do that on such a regular basis it ain't funny.
Can you tell me how to tell the difference between brazilian jazz to american jazz and bossa nova?
And exactly where did I do that? I mentioned bossa nova, and avoided mention of samba as that's too contentious a point. Don't let your imagination run away with you.
Quote "Your point about the triple swing vs. straight four is a differentiation between American jazz and Brazilian jazz (which covers bossa nova)"
What else does brazilian jazz cover?
Maybe you ought to learn to read - this thread is titled "Jazz 'round Midnight", remember? Just because I listed those tracks (qualified with "within this environment" mind you) doesn't mean that's anywhere near a comprehensive list. Then again, you do have a tendency to take the scrap of information, which is all your head can seem to contain, and run off on some fantasy with it.
I was just trying to tell you that brazilian jazz is a term used to describe fusion music. It does not define specific characteristic of music like jazz or bossa nova.
OK, you're slow on the uptake, so I'll say it again. My "problem", as you choose to view it, is that I disagree that the distinction can be as cut-and-dried as you make it out to be.
I didnt know that it was wrong to call Gilberto"the queen of bossa nova" as a bossa nova singer? What will be a better way of descibing her music?
*sigh* It's pretty sad to see how you make a big deal out of knowing a little bit about something. You really do need to get out more.
Are you talking about yourself? -
Again, you do need to learn how to read - that was about styles. dizzy Gillespie was known for his Latin jazz style - does that make him Latin?Originally posted by Gazelle:Quote "Your point about the triple swing vs. straight four is a differentiation between American jazz and Brazilian jazz (which covers bossa nova)"
Once again, you really do need to learn how to read - your question shows that you have lumped American jazz and bossa nova together. All this time you've said that they are mutually exclusive - make you mind up, will you?Originally posted by Gazelle:Can you tell me how to tell the difference between brazilian jazz to american jazz and bossa nova?
Maybe your screen's working funny, but I don't see where I've mentioned samba, songo and salsa under Brazilian jazz.Originally posted by Gazelle:Quote "Your point about the triple swing vs. straight four is a differentiation between American jazz and Brazilian jazz (which covers bossa nova)"
What else does brazilian jazz cover?
What else Brazilian jazz covers seems to be a question of who's defining it, something that's commonplace across jazz and also something that, despite all of your puffery, you don't seem to get. Some people even put Corinho under the aegis of Brazilian jazz.
Again, you need to make you mind up. First you say it doesn't exist, now you try to define it. You can't even agree with yourself, and you're trying to put an argument forward?Originally posted by Gazelle:I was just trying to tell you that brazilian jazz is a term used to describe fusion music. It does not define specific characteristic of music like jazz or bossa nova.
Hey, of course she's a bossa nova singer. It's your rigid "jazz is this, jazz is not that" argument that I have a problem with. You may know the technical aspects (or claim to at least), but they very fact that you're being so rigid about it shows that you've missed the forest for the trees.Originally posted by Gazelle:I didnt know that it was wrong to call Gilberto"the queen of bossa nova" as a bossa nova singer? What will be a better way of descibing her music? -
Me being rigid about jazz? can I know what is wrong with me making the below statement? What is wrong calling Gilberto a Bossa Nova singer?Originally posted by Gedanken:Hey, of course she's a bossa nova singer. It's your rigid "jazz is this, jazz is not that" argument that I have a problem with. You may know the technical aspects (or claim to at least), but they very fact that you're being so rigid about it shows that you've missed the forest for the trees.
Quote from Gazelle :
(I think Gilberto is a consider a more bossa nova singer than jazz. for jazz singer you should check out, Etta james, billie holiday and ella fitzgerald.
Somehow I feel that most jazz listeners in Singapore only appreciate those smooth and modern jazz. not much people are really into those mind twisting jazz like contrane, pharoah sanders, miles.) Unquote
BTW CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE f??? IS BRAZILIAN JAZZ!!! -
You got the wrong quote - this one shows how cut-and-dried your view of things is.Originally posted by Gazelle:And do you know the Bossa Nova music are all written with a straight four feel, while jazz are all in triplet swing feel?
What's Brazilian jazz? Why, Brazilian rhythms and American harminies/melodies, of course. Like I said, if you want a concrete definition, try a different, more formulaic form of music - maybe Kenny G is your sort of thing. What's next in your bag of tricks - trying to define a strict doctrine for improvisation? -
Btw, what is wrong if most jazz listeners in Singapore prefer smooth and modern jazz compared to acid jazz etcOriginally posted by Gazelle:Me being rigid about jazz? can I know what is wrong with me making the below statement? What is wrong calling Gilberto a Bossa Nova singer?
Quote from Gazelle :
(I think Gilberto is a consider a more bossa nova singer than jazz. for jazz singer you should check out, Etta james, billie holiday and ella fitzgerald.
Somehow I feel that most jazz listeners in Singapore only appreciate those smooth and modern jazz. not much people are really into those mind twisting jazz like contrane, pharoah sanders, miles.) Unquote
BTW CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE f??? IS BRAZILIAN JAZZ!!! -
Tut, tut, tut, elindra - didn't you hear Gazelle? Jazz listening must be strictly according to his edicts!Originally posted by elindra:Btw, what is wrong if most jazz listeners in Singapore prefer smooth and modern jazz compared to acid jazz etc -
OhhhhhhOriginally posted by Gedanken:Tut, tut, tut, elindra - didn't you hear Gazelle? Jazz listening must be strictly according to his edicts!
My bad. I have such bad taste to prefer Smooth, Swing and Bossa
-
Oh, for shame! Pray to the shrine of Miles Davis and gyrate to Bebop five times a day without fail for the next week in the vain hope of forgiveness! Don't forget to swing on that eighth beat either - failure to do so will condemn you to an eternity of fire and brimstone!Originally posted by elindra:Ohhhhhh
My bad. I have such bad taste to prefer Smooth, Swing and Bossa 
-
Ged, I see how much you really know about music huh? after talking about so much the who is who and when and what about jazz, now you are telling me jazz swing on the 8th note....Originally posted by Gedanken:Oh, for shame! Pray to the shrine of Miles Davis and gyrate to Bebop five times a day without fail for the next week in the vain hope of forgiveness! Don't forget to swing on that eighth beat either - failure to do so will condemn you to an eternity of fire and brimstone! I only know that jazz swing on the 2 and 4.....
Dr. Tan, you beinging sound like a little boy on a bicycle who talk like he is valentino rossi.
I think Kenny G's music might be too deep for you to understand...
I hope you dont go around counting 1 2 3 4 and looking for that 8th note, the next time you pop into a jazz club...heheh -
Can I choose to swim in Styx instead?Originally posted by Gedanken:Oh, for shame! Pray to the shrine of Miles Davis and gyrate to Bebop five times a day without fail for the next week in the vain hope of forgiveness! Don't forget to swing on that eighth beat either - failure to do so will condemn you to an eternity of fire and brimstone! -
no lah, I trust your taste for music and personally I think women who like listening to smooth jazz and bossa are usually very romantic...what is your view on that?Originally posted by elindra:Ohhhhhh
My bad. I have such bad taste to prefer Smooth, Swing and Bossa -
BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!! Predictable as a movement on Metamucil, I dropped the bait and the Grand Poobah of Jazz went right for it, pushing his little red wagon! This is too much!
-
Ooooh, elindra, our boy's trying to give you the sweet talk and all that jazz (pun intended) again!Originally posted by Gazelle:no lah, I trust your taste for music and personally I think women who like listening to smooth jazz and bossa are usually very romantic...what is your view on that? -
Which other brazilian rhythms are include in your brazilian Jazz?Originally posted by Gedanken:You got the wrong quote - this one shows how cut-and-dried your view of things is.
What's Brazilian jazz? Why, Brazilian rhythms and American harminies/melodies, of course. Like I said, if you want a concrete definition, try a different, more formulaic form of music - maybe Kenny G is your sort of thing. What's next in your bag of tricks - trying to define a strict doctrine for improvisation? -
Attempting to bargain down the sentence will only result in Gazelle cracking on to you again!Originally posted by elindra:Can I choose to swim in Styx instead? -
Originally posted by Gazelle:no lah, I trust your taste for music and personally I think women who like listening to smooth jazz and bossa are usually very romantic...what is your view on that?
I don't think it is fair to categorize men/women based on what they like to listen to as most enjoy a wide genre of music. As for smooth jazz and bossa nova, I find them more sensual than romantic. -
Really now GedOriginally posted by Gedanken:Ooooh, elindra, our boy's trying to give you the sweet talk and all that jazz (pun intended) again! 
You don't have to make it obvious when I'm avoiding it -
Ooooh, you're walking on thin ice there, girl. This is this, and that is that, and everything must fit into neat little pigeonholes in the world of the Grand Poobah of Jazz!Originally posted by elindra:I don't think it is fair to categorize men/women based on what they like to listen to as most enjoy a wide genre of music. As for smooth jazz and bossa nova, I find them more sensual than romantic. -
Oops, my bad - I'll spring for the Dettol!Originally posted by elindra:Really now Ged
You don't have to make it obvious when I'm avoiding it -
Laughing is the best way to hide their ones weakness or to escape controntation, and that is exactly what you are doing. If you cant continue a decent conversation on Jazz, I would appreciate that you switch forum to your maggot brain station..Originally posted by Gedanken:BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!! Predictable as a movement on Metamucil, I dropped the bait and the Grand Poobah of Jazz went right for it, pushing his little red wagon! This is too much!
ged, dont need to be so how lian...talk big no use..must action!! -
Originally posted by Gedanken:Ooooh, you're walking on thin ice there, girl. This is this, and that is that, and everything must fit into neat little pigeonholes in the world of the Grand Poobah of Jazz!
Ged I'm having a hard time here trying not to laugh out loud in the office