Is there a need for all the pretense?
-
Some Singaporeans do perceive the American or English accent/influence as superior. My mom's one of them LOL. It is a societal problem, partly brought on by government but perhaps also from our colonial past. I think it's difficult to shake off the societal inferior complex.
There's no need for this faux-accent pretense, but sometimes it just slips out subconsciously. You can't remain totally unaffected by the foreign media influence around you. Some phrases, slangs and accents get absorbed and occassionally it slips out in your daily conversations, even if you don't intend it to.
As for the accusation of the bombastic application of language in this forum's discourses... hahaha all I can say is, whatever you read here is not a deliberate act.
As long as the content is comprehensible, I like that everyone writes in their own unique way. It's what makes you, you. -
Looking at Elindra's story, I rem that i encountered one even more extreme case.
At a kopitiam, the auntie was taking orders for drinks. So she was saying, "Xiao jie, ni yao shen me." Usually, it's common courtesy to reply back in the same language rite.. But this lady, purposely, Die-Die also want to speak in English.. somemore her English is cannot make it one loh!!
"Wah, Tolay, wea-ler veli.. erm.. jialat horr. Arr, I want that b*tch one." the kopi-soh looked stunned. "Aiyah! There.. that pink colur, pink colour one." Points to Peach Tea. "Ice small small can."
When the kopi-soh was gone, she turned to her other relatives at the table and started to speak in Hokkien.
.. please loh.. think she was just trying to show that she is higher class than the kopi-soh just becos she knows a little In-ger-lish, but she doesn't know she's just making a fool of herself.. 
-
I have been living overseas around 8 years.. tho its quite long, I never or thought of changing my accent..unlike others. I really deteste people who try to be bananas or potatoes. I mean, why cant they be proud of their culture? I dont like to hang out with these kind of people who try to show off or pretend to be something they not. Dont they realise no matter how hard they try they will still look and remain Asian..not a westerner. But I dont mind people who have asian parents but was born and bred overseas as a result, they acquire the western accent.
-
what are the grammer elitists?Originally posted by Bloop...: This is great. I've lived in many different countries over the years. It's amazing to see how each country has it's own elitist groups.
This is the best one yet. Grammer elitists.
-
I guess, he means that if you use good grammAr, you're one!Originally posted by alexkusu:what are the grammer elitists? It's sheer segregation and prejudice, I say! 
It's really ironic though... since when did one get criticised for doing something well, and for doing it correctly? -
Look up the meaning of elitist.Originally posted by Rhonda:I guess, he means that if you use good grammAr, you're one! It's sheer segregation and prejudice, I say!
It's really ironic though... since when did one get criticised for doing something well, and for doing it correctly?
You think the way you speak is the "correct" way, the best way. Slice that anyway you want, that is elitism. -
Yes, there is a need. Economies thrive because of diplomacy.
-
ooh..he meant grammar, not grammer...i thought perhaps its something like the Grammaton Clerics from the movie Rebellion.Originally posted by Rhonda:I guess, he means that if you use good grammAr, you're one! It's sheer segregation and prejudice, I say!
It's really ironic though... since when did one get criticised for doing something well, and for doing it correctly? -
brother, you should check up the spelling of "Grammar" (not grammer) ..Originally posted by Bloop...:Look up the meaning of elitist.
You think the way you speak is the "correct" way, the best way. Slice that anyway you want, that is elitism.
maybe i'm now a spelling elitist huh?
-
Fight, fight.
Winner gets to speak Singlish, English or what the fish. -
*grabs popcorn and Coke*Originally posted by charlize:Fight, fight.
Winner gets to speak Singlish, English or what the fish. -
Sheesh, this thread just goes to show what can happen on the forum when you go to sleep!
Bloop, I don't think you can equate the accent used at the supermarket with the language used in Club 30. The key issue here is context.
The standard of English used here is consistent with that in the rest of Club 30's threads. While nobody here is going to be panned for using Singlish, the culture of this forum is such that using language that you would call bombastic would not raise an eyebrow. Within the context of Club 30, what Rhonda has written is perfectly in place for the people who regularly read her posts.
In contrast, it's fairly obvious that the lady running the deli counter could easily do with an order that was placed in a non-American tone. There was simply no need for it. Of course, the other issue is whether or not the speaker's accent was natural or put-on, and I doubt that elindra, like many Singaporeans, has any difficulty spotting a put-on accent.
Rhonda's written in a way that expected of her in this thread, and the lady that elindra wrote about was putting on an accent in an inappropriate context. It's comparing apples to oranges.
If I've read your posts right, what you're trying to say is that perhaps we shouldn't be too judgemental about people who put on accents. If that's the case, why not say it in plain English instead of beating about the bush and dragging the argument out?
Along the way, you've gone on so many tangents you seem to have confused everybody including yourself. Your having stayed in different countries is irrelevant - not only have many other people in this thread had a similar breadth of experience, some of us are posting from overseas. I can only surmise that you were trying to impress someone with that claim, and I'm sad to say the attempt has failed. Your claim of being able to understand Kiwi accents but not Victorian ones is just bizarre.
Reading through all of your posts made since I hit the sack last night, I get the sense that you're not actually making any serious point here. Well and good if that's the case, but I think some people here are taking you more seriously than you intended and that's causing some problems. Would it be fair to recommend that they take all of this as just a bit of play fighting? -
I think you all need to step back and re-read my posts if you think I went off tangent.Originally posted by Gedanken:Sheesh, this thread just goes to show what can happen on the forum when you go to sleep!
Bloop, I don't think you can equate the accent used at the supermarket with the language used in Club 30. The key issue here is context.
The standard of English used here is consistent with that in the rest of Club 30's threads. While nobody here is going to be panned for using Singlish, the culture of this forum is such that using language that you would call bombastic would not raise an eyebrow. Within the context of Club 30, what Rhonda has written is perfectly in place for the people who regularly read her posts.
In contrast, it's fairly obvious that the lady running the deli counter could easily do with an order that was placed in a non-American tone. There was simply no need for it. Of course, the other issue is whether or not the speaker's accent was natural or put-on, and I doubt that elindra, like many Singaporeans, has any difficulty spotting a put-on accent.
Rhonda's written in a way that expected of her in this thread, and the lady that elindra wrote about was putting on an accent in an inappropriate context. It's comparing apples to oranges.
If I've read your posts right, what you're trying to say is that perhaps we shouldn't be too judgemental about people who put on accents. If that's the case, why not say it in plain English instead of beating about the bush and dragging the argument out?
Along the way, you've gone on so many tangents you seem to have confused everybody including yourself. Your having stayed in different countries is irrelevant - not only have many other people in this thread had a similar breadth of experience, some of us are posting from overseas. I can only surmise that you were trying to impress someone with that claim, and I'm sad to say the attempt has failed. Your claim of being able to understand Kiwi accents but not Victorian ones is just bizarre.
Reading through all of your posts made since I hit the sack last night, I get the sense that you're not actually making any serious point here. Well and good if that's the case, but I think some people here are taking you more seriously than you intended and that's causing some problems. Would it be fair to recommend that they take all of this as just a bit of play fighting?
The whole point is this - EVERYONE speaks with an accent. Accents are nothing more than different speech intonations. What all of you perceive to be "accent free" English is heavily accented to another person.
What makes one manner of speach "accented" and another not, is just what you've grown accustomed to hearing day to day. In the same way, grammar can also be accented when used out of the usual manner in a country/city/town/etc.
Eg. You tell a small town American audience that you're taking two days "holiday" next week and see what they tell you. Or if you see a sign saying, "The funniest ride on the boardwalk", in Sweden, don't expect to be laughing when you're on it.
So for all of you to be pointing at other peoples speech patterns, be it consitent or otherwise, while using a manner of English not consistent with that of the majority of the English speaking population in Singapore...
...fill in the rest yourself. -
tis thread getting more and more diverted....
1) we are talking abt ascent not slang or words used
2) we are talking abt faking an ascent not whether we have ascent or not....
who dun have ascent wor??
btw the faking of ascent kinda remind me of something....
i saw tis gal who pout her mouth together just to make it "smaller"... i was like wat's wrong with her mouth? then i saw her face cramp, she "release" the pout, move her jaws... then resume the "pout"!!! wahahahahaa.......
think it is how ridiculous one will look when trying to fake a false ascent to upkeep a certain image.... -
..but you're also right that I'm not taking this seriously. What do I care? I speak perfect, accent-free English tooOriginally posted by Gedanken:Reading through all of your posts made since I hit the sack last night, I get the sense that you're not actually making any serious point here. Well and good if that's the case, but I think some people here are taking you more seriously than you intended and that's causing some problems. Would it be fair to recommend that they take all of this as just a bit of play fighting? -
some ppl pick up on accents easily. My BBC bestie in London starts speaking with a malaysian accent when she comes to malaysia to visit her cousins. Likewise, I tend to sometimes break into singapore accented english when here, but honestly im more comfortable and happy speaking english that is "ang moh" accented. and seriously, if i like it, why not?Originally posted by elindra:For one, her accent is not consistent and it didn't seem to have the flow. Call it exposure from my last job
And I have enough ABC cousins whom I talk enough to know
Also, she seemed more comfortable speaking with the local accent, with her friend. -
I agree. most singaporeans students in UK who don't think they've got an accent are shocked when people can't quite understand wot they're saying. Even for those of us who have a sort of "ang moh" accent, unfortunately most of its been picked up off american TV(blame the TV!) so wot u have is the brits still can't quite understand ya anyways.Originally posted by Bloop...:The whole point is this - EVERYONE speaks with an accent. Accents are nothing more than different speech intonations. What all of you perceive to be "accent free" English is heavily accented to another person. -
Language is for communication.
As long as the other party understands the crap that you are speaking, who gives a ShIt about whether it is spoken with an accent or not? -
Exactly! In the case described by elindra, don't be surprised if the lady placed her order in a put-on American accent only to have the deli counter lady go, "Huh? Kong si mi?".Originally posted by Bloop...:What makes one manner of speach "accented" and another not, is just what you've grown accustomed to hearing day to day. In the same way, grammar can also be accented when used out of the usual manner in a country/city/town/etc.
Eg. You tell a small town American audience that you're taking two days "holiday" next week and see what they tell you. Or if you see a sign saying, "The funniest ride on the boardwalk", in Sweden, don't expect to be laughing when you're on it.
The examples you put up line up precisely with what elindra was talking about. The woman was in Singapore, and her purposes were not at all served by her putting on an American accent. See how you've ended up making elindra's case for her?
As for the rest of it, I don't have to fill anything in - you just wasted a lot of words and a night's sleep to express the simple thought: "You're too judgemental for criticising the woman's use of the accent". For all of your attempts at fancy moves, you've just ended up scoring an own-goal instead of making a simple point.
In any case, we're agreed - I'm just having a bit of playful banter here because I just can't bring myself to take you seriously. -
This topic kind of touched a dilemma. The above quote is quite true, and happens to me unconciously. An Australian once thought I had studied in Australia bec. of my spoken English. I was never in favour of ppl who fake accents, so imagine my shock at hearing that! I think, unconciously, I can be influenced by the British/American/Australian English that we hear on TV or radio, and in a bid to pronounce the words correctly (in a non-Singlish way), I could end up sounding pretentious! In the general/daily context, is it wrong for a S'porean to not sound like a Singlish-speaking S'porean?Originally posted by MrIllusion:My concern is that if I speak too quickly, or too differently from the way they are used to, they (i.e.the Western foreigners) will not understand me. -
Hey, a Pom once thought my accent was French Guyanan. I didn't even know where French Guyana was at the time.
-
someone asked if i was thai. i was wondering how to say im 1/16th thai.Originally posted by Gedanken:Hey, a Pom once thought my accent was French Guyanan. I didn't even know where French Guyana was at the time.
ach at least i didn't pickup on the chavslang innit? -
See? but's that where you're wrong, I'm not judging nor critizing her for her use of the language... only the way she critizied someone else for what she perceived to be a fake accent, without first see how the way she speaks could also be seen as "fake" to some.Originally posted by Gedanken:Exactly! In the case described by elindra, don't be surprised if the lady placed her order in a put-on American accent only to have the deli counter lady go, "Huh? Kong si mi?".
The examples you put up line up precisely with what elindra was talking about. The woman was in Singapore, and her purposes were not at all served by her putting on an American accent. See how you've ended up making elindra's case for her?
As for the rest of it, I don't have to fill anything in - you just wasted a lot of words and a night's sleep to express the simple thought: "You're too judgemental for criticising the woman's use of the accent". For all of your attempts at fancy moves, you've just ended up scoring an own-goal instead of making a simple point.
In any case, we're agreed - I'm just having a bit of playful banter here because I just can't bring myself to take you seriously.
Also, that if that lady wanted to fake an American accent even while speaking Hokkien... her perogative no?
...and once again, read from the start. I did not jump in with "attempts at fancy moves". -
how would that sound like?Originally posted by Bloop...:..but you're also right that I'm not taking this seriously. What do I care? I speak perfect, accent-free English too
i can understand kiwi and aussies when they speak..even the irish. What I struggle to understand are the indians..they accent are too strong. When I say indian..I mean indian indians..ie they came from Maldives, India, etc. Not Indians who come from Singapore, etc.
Anyway, my lecturer was told me in high school, that Americans and Aussies speak poor english, and the only people who speak the 'true' english is...surprise surprise..would be the South Africans. But can anybody verify this? -
Pom = pomeranian?Originally posted by Gedanken:Hey, a Pom once thought my accent was French Guyanan. I didn't even know where French Guyana was at the time.