Is there a need for all the pretense?
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Like I said, your point could simply have been expressed by the opinion that she was being judgemental or (from the slant you seem to be taking) hypocritical. One simple statement. Everything else you've written is just fluff, and asking me reading it from the start only serves to muddy the point you're trying to make, so do yourself a favour and get to the point without all the fancy moves.Originally posted by Bloop...:See? but's that where you're wrong, I'm not judging nor critizing her for her use of the language... only the way she critizied someone else for what she perceived to be a fake accent, without first see how the way she speaks could also be seen as "fake" to some.
Also, that if that lady wanted to fake an American accent even while speaking Hokkien... her perogative no?
...and once again, read from the start. I did not jump in with "attempts at fancy moves".
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u want perfect english? i guess that would be monotonic, computer synthesised reading of english. that is the most accent free kind of english i can think of, altho im sure some will call it "electronically accented" or something...Originally posted by alexkusu:how would that sound like?
i can understand kiwi and aussies when they speak..even the irish. What I struggle to understand are the indians..they accent are too strong. When I say indian..I mean indian indians..ie they came from Maldives, India, etc. Not Indians who come from Singapore, etc.
Anyway, my lecturer was told me in high school, that Americans and Aussies speak poor english, and the only people who speak the 'true' english is...surprise surprise..would be the South Africans. But can anybody verify this? -
What do you mean by "true" English? I've spoken to a few South Africans and have had no problem understanding them, and if "true" Enligish means textbook English, I would agree that they have some tendency to speak that way.Originally posted by alexkusu:how would that sound like?
i can understand kiwi and aussies when they speak..even the irish. What I struggle to understand are the indians..they accent are too strong. When I say indian..I mean indian indians..ie they came from Maldives, India, etc. Not Indians who come from Singapore, etc.
Anyway, my lecturer was told me in high school, that Americans and Aussies speak poor english, and the only people who speak the 'true' english is...surprise surprise..would be the South Africans. But can anybody verify this?
Then again, I wouldn't generalise. Within any society you'll have social strata, and the standard of language varies widely across those strata. -
Double post. Bloody lag.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Oh really? ...and yes, I can clearly see I'm the only one in the entire forum that does that huh?
Like I said, your point could simply have been expressed by the opinion that she was being judgemental or (from the slant you seem to be taking) hypocritical. One [b]simple statement. Everything else you've written is just fluff, and asking me reading it from the start only serves to muddy the point you're trying to make, so do yourself a favour and get to the point without all the fancy moves.[/b]
Everyone else posts in neat, point form.
I'm sorry, I'll do that from now on.
1. Other than vocal accents, there are grammatical accents.
2. A person who puts on one form of accent, has no right to
be critical of another persons form of accent.
(should I put sub-points too to clarify what is an accent?)
3. Singlish is a colloqial form of English, therefore is English.
4. Even the British do not speak "proper" English anymore.
5. As such, the way some of you speak English which you did
not pick up from speaking to other Singaporeans is as much
"fake" as the afore mentioned lady's "fake" American accent.
Happy? Easy to understand format for all concerned? -
Yes, really.Originally posted by Bloop...:Oh really? ...and yes, I can clearly see I'm the only one in the entire forum that does that huh?
Everyone else posts in neat, point form.
I'm sorry, I'll do that from now on.
1. Other than vocal accents, there are grammatical accents.
2. A person who puts on one form of accent, has no right to
be critical of another persons form of accent.
(should I put sub-points too to clarify what is an accent?)
3. Singlish is a colloqial form of English, therefore is English.
4. Even the British do not speak "proper" English anymore.
5. As such, the way some of you speak English which you did
not pick up from speaking to other Singaporeans is as much
"fake" as the afore mentioned lady's "fake" American accent.
Happy? Easy to understand format for all concerned?
Grammatical accents?
ac·cent ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ksnt)
n.
1) The relative prominence of a particular syllable of a word by greater intensity or by variation or modulation of pitch or tone.
2) Vocal prominence or emphasis given to a particular syllable, word, or phrase.
3) A characteristic pronunciation, especially:
a) One determined by the regional or social background of the speaker.
b) One determined by the phonetic habits of the speaker's native language carried over to his or her use of another language.
4) A mark or symbol used in the printing and writing of certain languages to indicate the vocal quality to be given to a particular letter: an acute accent.
5) A mark or symbol used in printing and writing to indicate the stressed syllables of a spoken word.
6) Rhythmically significant stress in a line of verse.
As you can see from the above dictionary definition, accents are by definition all vocal. Don't start coming up with nonsense like grammatical accents, and sure as hell don't try giving me your nonsensical point form definitions.
If you were brought up to write in Singlish, feel free to post here in Singlish. The rest of us were taught to write in the manner prescribed by the GCE system adopted by Singapore's education system. Therefore, anyone who writes in fluent (what in your warped logic you would call bombastic) English is writing in the way he or she was taught in Singapore. So you see, there's nothing fake about it - if you think there is, I suggest you immediately write a letter of complaint to the Ministry of Education - in your most natural Singlish.
At this rate, every post you make only goes further to prove that if IQ points could be traded for Frequent Flyer miles, you couldn't get out of sight. Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that you quit while you're ahead - as it is you're so far behind it's way too late for that. What I am saying, however, is that you've already hit rock-bottom - there's no need to keep digging.
Anyway, I'm off to a movie. Do post again and provide me with more amusement in a few hours.
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wat movie? Spanglish?Originally posted by Gedanken:Anyway, I'm off to a movie. Do post again and provide me with more amusement in a few hours.
pun pun -
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Yes, really.
Grammatical accents?
ac·cent ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ksnt)
n.
1) The relative prominence of a particular syllable of a word by greater intensity or by variation or modulation of pitch or tone.
2) Vocal prominence or emphasis given to a particular syllable, word, or phrase.
3) A characteristic pronunciation, especially:
a) One determined by the regional or social background of the speaker.
b) One determined by the phonetic habits of the speaker's native language carried over to his or her use of another language.
4) A mark or symbol used in the printing and writing of certain languages to indicate the vocal quality to be given to a particular letter: an acute accent.
5) A mark or symbol used in printing and writing to indicate the stressed syllables of a spoken word.
6) Rhythmically significant stress in a line of verse.
As you can see from the above dictionary definition, accents are by definition all vocal. Don't start coming up with nonsense like grammatical accents, and sure as hell don't try giving me your nonsensical point form definitions.
If you were brought up to write in Singlish, feel free to post here in Singlish. The rest of us were taught to write in the manner prescribed by the GCE system adopted by Singapore's education system. Therefore, anyone who writes in fluent (what in your warped logic you would call bombastic) English is writing in the way he or she was taught in Singapore. So you see, there's nothing fake about it - if you think there is, I suggest you immediately write a letter of complaint to the Ministry of Education - in your most natural Singlish.
At this rate, every post you make only goes further to prove that if IQ points could be traded for Frequent Flyer miles, you couldn't get out of sight. Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that you quit while you're ahead - as it is you're so far behind it's way too late for that. What I [b]am saying, however, is that you've already hit rock-bottom - there's no need to keep digging.
Anyway, I'm off to a movie. Do post again and provide me with more amusement in a few hours.[/b] ok.. See? Right there! You don't know as much about English, or language in general, as you try to make it seem you do.
I'm not going to bother explaining to you what a "grammatical accent" is.
I suppose if someone told you that they are on a "financial diet", you're going to pull dictionary definitions and tell them it makes no sense either?
Yeah... you're SO far ahead... -
Wah.... so fast 7 pages.
Can I just share my views?
I somehow felt that we have a tendency to speak like those we often mixed with. If you mixed with ang moh a lot.. u speaks like them... if u mixed with ah bengs a lot.. u speaks like ah beng (an expat friend once told me that I speaks like a ah beng... she meant I speak singlish
) -
Why wouldn't you understand Victorians????Originally posted by Bloop...:Any problems communicating with Australian Vics though? I spent a long time in New Jersey and New York before spending another 3 years in Melbourne.
Everytime I spoke to them I ended up going, "What the fuc...". Mentally of course. Those guys don't even understand New Zealanders!!!
"Cheese Burger and a Coke" ... "CHEese BURger and A COke"... Two different languages altogther as far as they're concern
In the mid 90's, if you stood outside any Hungry Jacks in Victoria and you would have seen see a bunch of Kiwis and me going, "What the fuc...?"...
And kiwis and their Sex and Six?
Ho My GAwd Habib. -
wat? Bloop is a kiwi?
Kia ora mate! -
aye wot mate? 'es a kiwi innit?Originally posted by alexkusu:wat? Bloop is a kiwi?
Kia ora mate! -
Oh, I see! You're one of those "let's pick up the latest catch-phrase neologisms sort"! It's hilarious how you're trying to recover from having your bluff called by questioning my knowledge of English, to the point of desperately citing another neologism like "financial diet".Originally posted by Bloop...: ok.. See? Right there! You don't know as much about English, or language in general, as you try to make it seem you do.
I'm not going to bother explaining to you what a "grammatical accent" is.
I suppose if someone told you that they are on a "financial diet", you're going to pull dictionary definitions and tell them it makes no sense either?
Yeah... you're SO far ahead... BTW, the last time someone questioned my credentials on the forum, he ended up with egg on his face because he only proved that I am exactly who I say I am. Take the risk if you want to, but you're just going to end up proving how dumb everybody knows you to be already.
No, you're right, please don't bother defining anything - I already know you're the sort to fall for any nonsensical phrase, as long as you imagine it makes you sound half intelligent. Besides, it's because you can't provide a definition that's not going to make you look even dumber than you are, not that you're not going to bother. It's OK - I'll let you off the hook here - this is embarrassing enough for you as it is.
I don't know what kind of snake-oil-sales circles you move in, but if you're going to try and convince me of anything, making things up on the fly is the worst way to go because I'm going to call your bluff every time.
Lemme give you a bit of a heads-up, booster - I've chewed up and spat out more than enough undergrads who've tried to get your brand of crap past me. You look to me like one of those who slithers their way past the pass line and then has a big party at graduation like it was some achievement. So yeah, I'm so far ahead, and I've seen plenty of your sort. I'm here to keep you honest.
You're bullsh!tting, and you and I both know it, so don't go acting indignant when the proper response is to be ashamed instead. -
Say Ling, you smell that? Is that bullsh!t?Originally posted by Lingos:Why wouldn't you understand Victorians????
And kiwis and their Sex and Six?
Ho My GAwd Habib. -
I'm using English unlike most Singaporeans would???Originally posted by Bloop...:Why? Well, because just about everyone I know here, except my closest friends and relatives, speak to me with an accent too. Whatever their reason may be, it's their choice and yes, I did take some offence to your post
Especially, when you were using English unlike that most Singaporean's would.
It seemed to me a little bit like a man in a lime green jumpsuit telling another in a luminous yellow leotard that he looks stupid and should change.
I'm speaking PLAIN English if that isn't already apparent to you. Is there any other form of English??? Do not deviate into things like Singlish, Cockney etc because they can be said to be an "English Dialect".
I think you're missing the point here. When I talk about the girl, I was really going," Must she act like she is so "high-class" when it is pretty obvious that the aunty is having trouble difficulty understanding her when she could just speak in the normal "local" accent. Isn't that what communication is about?
Anyway, I think that it is pure bullshit to fake an accent to appear to be of a "higher class" if that accent is your natural accent, good for ya. It shouldn't offend you because that is your accent. My gripe here is why put on the pretense on having a foreign accent when you do not?
Anyway, you're not there. So should I have recorded the whole incident and post it here to show how darn funny it is when someone tries to impress god-knows-who??? Anyway, you can say that I am being judgemental but the whole charade folded like a cheap umbrella to know that it was a fake accent. Hey if that is her real accent I have no issues about it.
Anyway, this whole topic is wayyyy off tangent now as I was asking if there is even a need to pretend to be what not.
Anyway, you have managed to confuse, confuzzle and befuddle everyone including yourself. I don't know why we even bother posting.
You know what? You are a dead ringer to chronicles. Is he your friend? -
Originally posted by Gedanken:Say Ling, you smell that? Is that bullsh!t?
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OK, back to your original topic, Elindra!
I think I've seen similar scenarios to the one you described, where someone puts on some fake accent to gain a 'one-up' on someone else. The accent was put on to accentuate the perceived difference in class, complimenting the speaker's hoity-toity attitude. Yeah, seen it before.
I have friends who grew up overseas and they ended up picking up the accent of the place where they grew up in. Now, it's authentic when you don't trip over your 'R's and 'S's and 'T's because if you listen to enough fakers, you realise that they end up adding consonents to the ends of words where there shouldn't be any, and they use their S's and all that excessively. Some don't fake too good!
I enjoy listening to different accents, it makes life interesting, but, I only enjoy listening to authentically-acquired accents. If you grew up in Boston, no one can chide you for having a Bostonian accent. However, if you've only been there for a month and you return home with a Boston accent, then, that's really questionable.
And putting on that accent certainly does not improve nor accentuate your communication skills with the locals, especially with that poor auntie working behind the counter.
I had a friend who left to study in Australia right after our 'A' levels. He returned after three years there, with a heavy Aussie accent. Basically, I told him, 'Hey, look... you grew up here! You spent the first 19 years of your life here, and you only spent three years in Australia... and you're telling me that you have entirely forgotten your native accent??!!' So the guy gave me a really sheepish look and we got back to talking, sans that fake, acquired accent.
Elindra, I guess your thread touched a raw nerve in our dear errant friend here... he confessed to putting on various accents, remember? I'm sure it was definitely not to communicate with the tourists here in order to promote our tourism industry, I'm sure of it. Now, I wonder why he'd have the need to, say, put on a fake Texan accent right in our local heartlands? My, to do exactly what the lady you were criticising was doing!!
And he also made us realise that we ought to be ashamed of minding our grammar when we post, because tsk! tsk! all who observe grammar rules are 'GrammEr Elitists'! I guess, there's only one person here who has a standard of English soooo superior, that he has the audacity to criticise everyone else's. And woe be to you if you should use 'bombastic' words that probably necessitates a search in some online dictionary for our dear chap here. We should be more 'reader-friendly', and be mindful of who's reading our posts, and adjust our writing level appropriately mah! Otherwise, some people will have difficulty understanding our posts and keep missing the point wor!
Everyone else is committing grand mistakes in English and communication, save for one very enlightened soul mah! He's the only one allowed to put on his arsenal of fake accents, and criticise everyone else's English, because he's the smartest nincompoop to have ever walked the face of earth, see? Aiyah... we probably don't even deserve to post in English, hor? 
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Oh, no no no, e - didn't you see Bloop's claim about "grammatical accents"?Originally posted by elindra:I'm using English unlike most Singaporeans would??? I'm speaking PLAIN English if that isn't already apparent to you. Is there any other form of English??? Do not deviate into things like Singlish, Cockney etc because they can be said to be an "English Dialect". -
Yeah hor, does it mean that from now on, in order to appear humble and non grammEr elitist, we should all mess up our grammar??Originally posted by Gedanken:Oh, no no no, e - didn't you see Bloop's claim about "grammatical accents"?
So, instead of saying, "I am going to the market." a non-grammEr elitist would say, 'Me goes to the market loh!'
I think it probably makes Bloop there, more at ease.
And while we're at it, why not fire all the English teachers because they're all GrammEr Elitists, propogating the use of good grammar to our poor innocent schoolkids!!
Man, you know what, I think we're overloading our poor pal here... we're coming in from too many directions and you know what happens when you try to push a 386 to perform the functions of a P4? -
Hey, watch your grammer! It's "I go market loh" - better edit your post before the Linguistics Professor takes umbrage!Originally posted by Rhonda:Yeah hor, does it mean that from now on, in order to appear humble and non grammEr elitist, we should all mess up our grammar??
So, instead of saying, "I am going to the market." a non-grammEr elitist would say, 'Me goes to the market loh!' I think it probably makes Bloop there, more at ease.
And while we're at it, why not fire all the English teachers because they're all GrammEr Elitists, propogating the use of good grammar to our poor innocent schoolkids? -
Soli ar, mi england not so powderful.Originally posted by Gedanken:Oh, no no no, e - didn't you see Bloop's claim about "grammatical accents"?
Mi no understand Bloop wor. His england too cheem liao.
Then again on the side Geddy, I didn't know that individual writing style have a fanciful name now.
* wonders which poor victim she should use this newly invented "profound phrase" on *
I know!!! We should write to the press about how local writers should stick to writing in "Singaporean English" and not act high-and-mighty and write with fake "Grammatical Accents" -
Yeah, hor! Aiyoh... lucky you tell me, brudder!! Otherwise, I kena fire!Originally posted by Gedanken:Hey, watch your grammer! It's "I go market loh" - better edit your post before the Linguistics Professor takes umbrage! -
Originally posted by elindra:Soli ar, mi england not so powderful.
Mi no understand Bloop wor. His england too cheem liao.
Then again on the side Geddy, I didn't know that individual writing style have a fanciful name now.
* wonders which poor victim she should use this newly invented "profound phrase" on *
I know!!! We should write to the press about how local writers should stick to writing in "Singaporean English" and not act high-and-mighty and write with fake "Grammatical Accents" Yeah!! Let's tell The Straits Times to stop being GrammEr Elitists!!
I guess our headlines would become more interesting soon - 'Got lady she 'tiao lao'! Aiyoh, so bloody, man!!' -
Yah lor! I oso onee Orh-level one leh! Kah cheem liao - buya tah han lah!Originally posted by elindra:Soli ar, mi england not so powderful.
Mi no understand Bloop wor. His england too cheem liao.
Then again on the side Geddy, I didn't know that individual writing style have a fanciful name now.
* wonders which poor victim she should use this newly invented "profound phrase" on *
I know!!! We should write to the press about how local writers should stick to writing in "Singaporean English" and not act high-and-mighty and write with fake "Grammatical Accents"
Dis type beri crever one leh - better join garmen and give them all his good ideas!