Birth Rate hits all time low
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It is job security. Remember recently somebody posted this case on pregnant women being sacked from job.Originally posted by dragg:last year's birth hit 35100, way short of govt's target of 50000.
will the baby bonus help?
i seriously doubt.
so expect to see more chinese immigrants...
Ok... fine. People get sacked when they don't perform. But it is natural that pregnant women tend to perform less and slower in their job due to the physical constraint. So what does this mean?
Working women should not give birth at all? I can't help, but to agree with that.
In some countries, pregnant workers are protected by labour law. But it is not happening in Singapore. We only see our govt pushing us to produce and multiply by giving us the "carrot". Sorry lah. I have done the calculation and the "carrot" is not attractive to me AT ALL. I am a very practical and calculative person as far as the govt policy is concerned.
Govt is using so much money to give us that not-so-attractive-to-me carrot. Why not use that money to please the companies instead? This way, companies are happy. They see no reason to sack the pregnant women. Instead they will try every way to keep them in order to get the "baby bonus" from govt. (If it is given to the company, maybe it should be renamed something else) . On top of that, companies may even come up with their own "carrot" to encourage their married female staff to have kids. -
CleverOriginally posted by tare:okie i'm guilty... i'm NOT helping!
and nope the baby bonus doesn't "motivates" me either.... not say they giving $100,000 or wat...
So are many Singaporeans. That's why the birth rate still drop. It's a good thing. It shows that Singaporeans do not stupidly follow orders. -
why blame sg ladies?Originally posted by nopulseisgood:
err...maybe becos sg ladies are not that horny??how to increase population if the girls just wanna have sex once a mth wif their husbard?
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lose your job and it will be difficult to find another. this is especially true for older workers.
one generally may not face much financial pressure while young but you never know after 40.
babies?
not unless you are financially stable!!! -
Cannot blame them..Originally posted by Honeybunz:why blame sg ladies?
Our lifestyle too harsh for many to have time to make babies not to say have babies -
i want to ask this question that goes against the grain of all that we have been taught...
why the heck do we want the birth rate to be so high?
i mean, look around you... we're way overpopulated... so why the hell do we need such a high birth rate?
if someone tells me "because of the greying population", i'm going to strangle the person... what, may i ask, are the huge number of children, if the birth rate increases, going to become? chopped liver?
they will become another generation's "greying population" too!
then what? singapore shoots for a population of 10million?
there is a certain limit which planet Earth can handle... we're near that..
we have not learn the lessons which wiped out the Mayan civilisation, have we? -
i agree with u, we may be under populated here but globally we're overpopulated. so dun just think of singapore, think globally. if u have less kids, global warming levels will be maintained and not rise. overpopulation and overcrowding will be maintained too.Originally posted by the Bear:i want to ask this question that goes against the grain of all that we have been taught...
why the heck do we want the birth rate to be so high?
i mean, look around you... we're way overpopulated... so why the hell do we need such a high birth rate?
if someone tells me "because of the greying population", i'm going to strangle the person... what, may i ask, are the huge number of children, if the birth rate increases, going to become? chopped liver?
they will become another generation's "greying population" too!
then what? singapore shoots for a population of 10million?
there is a certain limit which planet Earth can handle... we're near that..
we have not learn the lessons which wiped out the Mayan civilisation, have we? -
*nod head*Originally posted by Honeybunz:Clever
So are many Singaporeans. That's why the birth rate still drop. It's a good thing. It shows that Singaporeans do not stupidly follow orders. -
Inflation inflates=birth rate deflates?
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Singapore isn't the only country being affected by this trend. Many developed countries are also experiencing the same problem. Eg, Australia, Japan. There are many factors influencing this trend.
1. Standard of living. As things get more and more expensiv, parents cannot afford to have as many children as they like. Imagine the investment needed to raise a baby to a working adult. Trust me its not cheap.
2. Modernisation of times. As the cultural ideas and perception starts to change so does the way people do things. Women nowadays are very much career driven as their male counterparts and alot are opting to have children later. Alot later than their mothers. But unfortunately due to the biological aspect being unchanged it produced problems. As women gets older so does their chances of miscarriage or infertility. So therefore it lessens the chances of producing a healthier baby able to survive.
3. Conditions of enviroment. Mortality rates are also a factor. In countries where death is common and the norm, families have more children for the sake of survival. The more children the more possibility of survival. Number playing.
I am sure alot of other factors are invovled but I am too lazy to think of them
Haha.
Great One -
Hey! Hey!! If you're going to strangle me, I'm going to put up a mean fight!Originally posted by the Bear:i want to ask this question that goes against the grain of all that we have been taught...
why the heck do we want the birth rate to be so high?
i mean, look around you... we're way overpopulated... so why the hell do we need such a high birth rate?
if someone tells me "because of the greying population", i'm going to strangle the person... what, may i ask, are the huge number of children, if the birth rate increases, going to become? chopped liver?
they will become another generation's "greying population" too!
then what? singapore shoots for a population of 10million?
there is a certain limit which planet Earth can handle... we're near that..
we have not learn the lessons which wiped out the Mayan civilisation, have we?
If there are disproportionately fewer births, when they reach working age, economically, they DO have to end up supporting the elderly population by way of taxes, volunteer work, etc. Resources WILL continue to be channeled to see to the welfare of the greying population and the burden shall continue to be shouldered by the economically viable, ie. those who are still working.
In demographics, we always avoid a top-heavy age pyramid, because it means that those below, shall shoulder a heavy burden.
There ARE social costs and implications involved!
Japan even produced a documentary back in the late 90's on their greying population. They were studying ways on how to handle the economic and societal implications of a large greying populace.
If birth rates do not have serious implications on Singapore's future, then, why would the govt go to such extent to try to encourage more births? -
you've fallen into the trap..
this huge number of children will become the next generation's "greying population"..
then what?
there is NO NEED for this...
they have enough resources to look after this generation of "greying population"..
what next? think about that question carefully...
p.s. i don't like the idea of selling away the future just to buy the illusion of making the present slightly easier..Originally posted by Rhonda:Hey! Hey!! If you're going to strangle me, I'm going to put up a mean fight!
If there are disproportionately fewer births, when they reach working age, economically, they DO have to end up supporting the elderly population by way of taxes, volunteer work, etc. Resources WILL continue to be channeled to see to the welfare of the greying population and the burden shall continue to be shouldered by the economically viable, ie. those who are still working.
In demographics, we always avoid a top-heavy age pyramid, because it means that those below, shall shoulder a heavy burden.
There ARE social costs and implications involved!
Japan even produced a documentary back in the late 90's on their greying population. They were studying ways on how to handle the economic and societal implications of a large greying populace.
If birth rates do not have serious implications on Singapore's future, then, why would the govt go to such extent to try to encourage more births? -
I think the factor that's close to a lot of people's heart would be a general pessimism about the state of things as they stand now.Originally posted by Great_One:Singapore isn't the only country being affected by this trend. Many developed countries are also experiencing the same problem. Eg, Australia, Japan. There are many factors influencing this trend.
I am sure alot of other factors are invovled but I am too lazy to think of them Haha.
Great One
After weathering economic uncertainties, retrenchments, disappointment over the lack of actual help from the various sectors, etc. who in the workforce feels secure over their job? Who has a sunny view of their career?
Stress seems to be building up like pressure building up within a pressure cooker in the average workplace these days. Employers try to limit headcount, transferring / distributing tasks that are meant to be performed by the 'excess' headcounts to those employers who are currently employed. This results in over-work, but nobody dares to speak up because everyone is worried about job security. This leads to highly stressed people who exhibit a short fuse in their dealings because they're tethering on breakdown.
I'm sure there'll be more than a handful who'll think :
- "Why give birth when the kids will end up having a tougher life than me?"
- "Why have kids when I cannot even cope now?"
- "Why start a family when I cannot even be guaranteed that I'll still have my job tomorrow?" -
I think the factor that's close to a lot of people's heart would be a general pessimism about the state of things as they stand now.Originally posted by Great_One:Singapore isn't the only country being affected by this trend. Many developed countries are also experiencing the same problem. Eg, Australia, Japan. There are many factors influencing this trend.
I am sure alot of other factors are invovled but I am too lazy to think of them Haha.
Great One
After weathering economic uncertainties, retrenchments, disappointment over the lack of actual help from the various sectors, etc. who in the workforce feels secure over their job? Who has a sunny view of their career?
Stress seems to be building up like pressure building up within a pressure cooker in the average workplace these days. Employers try to limit headcount, transferring / distributing tasks that are meant to be performed by the 'excess' headcounts to those employers who are currently employed. This results in over-work, but nobody dares to speak up because everyone is worried about job security. This leads to highly stressed people who exhibit a short fuse in their dealings because they're tethering on breakdown.
I'm sure there'll be more than a handful who'll think :
- "Why give birth when the kids will end up having a tougher life than me?"
- "Why have kids when I cannot even cope now?"
- "Why start a family when I cannot even be guaranteed that I'll still have my job tomorrow?" -
I think the factor that's close to a lot of people's heart would be a general pessimism about the state of things as they stand now.Originally posted by Great_One:Singapore isn't the only country being affected by this trend. Many developed countries are also experiencing the same problem. Eg, Australia, Japan. There are many factors influencing this trend.
I am sure alot of other factors are invovled but I am too lazy to think of them Haha.
Great One
After weathering economic uncertainties, retrenchments, disappointment over the lack of actual help from the various sectors, etc. who in the workforce feels secure over their job? Who has a sunny view of their career?
Stress seems to be building up like pressure building up within a pressure cooker in the average workplace these days. Employers try to limit headcount, transferring / distributing tasks that are meant to be performed by the 'excess' headcounts to those employers who are currently employed. This results in over-work, but nobody dares to speak up because everyone is worried about job security. This leads to highly stressed people who exhibit a short fuse in their dealings because they're tethering on breakdown.
I'm sure there'll be more than a handful who'll think :
- "Why give birth when the kids will end up having a tougher life than me?"
- "Why have kids when I cannot even cope now?"
- "Why start a family when I cannot even be guaranteed that I'll still have my job tomorrow?" -
I think the factor that's close to a lot of people's heart would be a general pessimism about the state of things as they stand now.Originally posted by Great_One:Singapore isn't the only country being affected by this trend. Many developed countries are also experiencing the same problem. Eg, Australia, Japan. There are many factors influencing this trend.
I am sure alot of other factors are invovled but I am too lazy to think of them Haha.
Great One
After weathering economic uncertainties, retrenchments, disappointment over the lack of actual help from the various sectors, etc. who in the workforce feels secure over their job? Who has a sunny view of their career?
Stress seems to be building up like pressure building up within a pressure cooker in the average workplace these days. Employers try to limit headcount, transferring / distributing tasks that are meant to be performed by the 'excess' headcounts to those employers who are currently employed. This results in over-work, but nobody dares to speak up because everyone is worried about job security. This leads to highly stressed people who exhibit a short fuse in their dealings because they're tethering on breakdown.
I'm sure there'll be more than a handful who'll think :
- "Why give birth when the kids will end up having a tougher life than me?"
- "Why have kids when I cannot even cope now?"
- "Why start a family when I cannot even be guaranteed that I'll still have my job tomorrow?" -
heavily subsidised education both local and overseas will help... plus cash credit for housing as boby bonus... :O) i think this will encourage people to reproduce more.Originally posted by chunyong:education expensive, healthcare expensive, GST getting higher, payrise tends to 0 and u think people will like to have so many kids meh ? got the $$$$ anot...if u give birth to 2, they both go poly or uni then u sure jialat and there goes ur CPF liao....milk powder oso not cheap leh....diapers oso...all add up and u see how much is siphoned from ur income monthly and the amount goes up exponentially month by month, yr by yr -
The concern is to have a healthy 'replacement' for population attrition. The idea is NOT to have more kids. It is to have enough to sustain the economic viability of a nation.Originally posted by the Bear:you've fallen into the trap..
this huge number of children will become the next generation's "greying population"..
then what?
there is NO NEED for this...
they have enough resources to look after this generation of "greying population"..
what next? think about that question carefully...
p.s. i don't like the idea of selling away the future just to buy the illusion of making the present slightly easier..
That is a macro level. Of course, the demographers and the govt will be looking at such issues from a macro viewpoint.
The micro view of us, the laymen, would be to protest that it is ludicrous to think of babies in such terms. -
Actually, it's one thing to encourage people to have more babies.Originally posted by forbes76:heavily subsidised education both local and overseas will help... plus cash credit for housing as boby bonus... :O) i think this will encourage people to reproduce more.
But the million dollar question is, will these people be able to be good parents?
I see so many parents these days, lost and clueless on how to keep their kids in control. For eg. when the family visits a loved one in hospital, very often, the parents do not care whilst their kids run up and down the hospital corridors, in and out of the rooms, being rowdy and running into people, generally making a nuisance of themselves. They're running around like blind missiles and someday, some accident is going to happen when they run into a post-op patient or worse, an elderly post-op patient, walking along the corridor with a walking frame, doing his physio.
If they can't even control their children, PLEASE, for the sake of public safety, DO NOT have babies!! -
again, you've fallen into the trap of not asking why and what's happening..
healthy replacement? there is more than enough as humanity has more than a sufficient critical mass as it is...
the economic viability part is also hogwash as "economics" as we know it, is totally flawed and wrong.. and it'll only lead not only humanity, but Planet Earth, to total ruin... we are taking out more than is being replaced.. and there is only a certain limit Earth can handle.. and we are near the brink..
micro, macro, whatever.. again, i say, go look to the Mayans.. their ignorance, and our hubris, will lead us to the path of ruin.. already, it is happening...
starting with overpopulation..Originally posted by Rhonda:The concern is to have a healthy 'replacement' for population attrition. The idea is NOT to have more kids. It is to have enough to sustain the economic viability of a nation.
That is a macro level. Of course, the demographers and the govt will be looking at such issues from a macro viewpoint.
The micro view of us, the laymen, would be to protest that it is ludicrous to think of babies in such terms. -
You're looking at Planet Earth.Originally posted by the Bear:again, you've fallen into the trap of not asking why and what's happening..
healthy replacement? there is more than enough as humanity has more than a sufficient critical mass as it is...
the economic viability part is also hogwash as "economics" as we know it, is totally flawed and wrong.. and it'll only lead not only humanity, but Planet Earth, to total ruin... we are taking out more than is being replaced.. and there is only a certain limit Earth can handle.. and we are near the brink..
micro, macro, whatever.. again, i say, go look to the Mayans.. their ignorance, and our hubris, will lead us to the path of ruin.. already, it is happening...
starting with overpopulation..
We're talking about Singapore here.
Other countries might be overpopulated and bursting at the seams and that has to be rectified somehow. But just because certain countries are overpopulated, does not mean that other countries have to start restricting population growth to 'compensate'. It just doesn't work that way. Political borders exist. Population is not a 'transferable' entity. -
Hey!! What's wrong with the server today? I only clicked on 'Submit' ONCE, but my posts keep coming out twice!
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it's even worse in singapore...
like i asked that question: what next?
we are already shooting for a 7 million population... and it's already like a moshpit on weekends down town...
by the time the 7million is achieved, and that pile of people become the next greying population, what next?
10 million?
singapore, already has unemployment, and all the social ills that plague overpopulated places (which the gabrament refuse to admit to) and what next?
as people become "more productive" in terms of work, there will be fewer people needed to produce more for more people.. but the growth MUST reach a plateau which no one wants to face... sooner or later, there will be an imbalance that huge, where we produce so much, needed so few people to do it with, and with the people unemployed and unable to consume the products, what do you think will happen?
like i said, economics based on "growth" is a pile of crock..
think about it!
no one else seems to want to...Originally posted by Rhonda:You're looking at Planet Earth.
We're talking about Singapore here.
Other countries might be overpopulated and bursting at the seams and that has to be rectified somehow. But just because certain countries are overpopulated, does not mean that other countries have to start restricting population growth to 'compensate'. It just doesn't work that way. Political borders exist. Population is not a 'transferable' entity. -
Agreed.Originally posted by the Bear:it's even worse in singapore...
like i asked that question: what next?
we are already shooting for a 7 million population... and it's already like a moshpit on weekends down town...
by the time the 7million is achieved, and that pile of people become the next greying population, what next?
10 million?
singapore, already has unemployment, and all the social ills that plague overpopulated places (which the gabrament refuse to admit to) and what next?
as people become "more productive" in terms of work, there will be fewer people needed to produce more for more people.. but the growth MUST reach a plateau which no one wants to face... sooner or later, there will be an imbalance that huge, where we produce so much, needed so few people to do it with, and with the people unemployed and unable to consume the products, what do you think will happen?
like i said, economics based on "growth" is a pile of crock..
think about it!
no one else seems to want to...
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If the govt is encouraging high birth rates so that we can hit 7 million, then that's crazy.
But the birth rate that they're targetting at now, is hardly going to yield a population of 7 million.
Aren't we just looking to maintain current no.s?