What do you ppl think of regular serviceman in the SAF?
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What i think of SAF regulars:
Its a job. The SAF offers something other jobs can't. For one thing, you are really shielded from 'real' life. It is difficult to starve in the SAF, accom is more or less guaranteed, and, at the end of the day, its not really a difficult job. Now, to say that it is not a diffcult job does not mean that its an easy life; it is not. However, it is something that almost anyone can do because the SAF is really, within reason, quite forgiving towards its members. The pay's not bad at all as well.
However, i think that a career in the SAF is, at the end of the day, an acceptance of mediocrity. I think this applies especially to Specialists. There really isn't anything wrong with mediocrity. A large majority of people have no more than mediocre careers as some kind of office 'executive', or as a 'supervisor' of some sort. But, this applies more to the SAF than elsewhere because, unlike in civvie street where there are clients to win over, presentations to make, networking to do, profit margins to watch, and projects to complete, the aren't really that many ways to shine in the SAF. For the most part, you drift through each post barely even making a ripple in the status quo. You get promoted if you wait long enough (and if you dun fcuk up too badly of course). -
True, there are black sheeps everywhere. but we're not even talking about the black sheeps in the army. we're talking about the nature of the job. your future has been streamlined into specs and officers, and farther into degree holders and diplomas, and even more so into scholars and non scholars, and then pay grade, etc etc...Originally posted by kAdEn:see what i mean? It is ppl's perception to the army that's degrading the job itself. Not everyone in the army behaves the same way....No wonder ppl always comment that army personnel are a bunch of lazy bummers. Only lazy, people with no ambition, not educated and what have you sign on with the army. I'm not going to try to deny any of the above, in fact, i agree and testify, to a certain extent, the truth that can be found in that statement cause there are bound to be black sheeps in every occupation, i.e. Bishops with sex scandals, Presidents' and prime ministers with sex scandals, infidelity among royalties, Major crimes, rapes and drug abuse, committed by sports/superstars who are idolised by millions. I think i've made my point.
You could argue that these are isolated cases, but why can't you do the same for people who carve out a career in the army? People who literally bleed and sweat to earn their pay, how many jobs out there can say the same thing? (no offence to the coustruction/building industry or foreign labours and any other whom i missed out) Though i won't be able to say that the majority of the army personnels are there because of patriotism or honour, but at least 20% of them fall into that category, the rest are just there to earn their keep. But i'm quite positively sure that in times of needs, most, if not ALL of them will be there to do their job, look at who went for up to Timor and Iraq. That's called professionalism. And that's what some of the guys in the job have. They deserve more respect than they are getting....
There is absolutely no need to work hard in the army, since promotion is almost a given according to your entry qualifications. hence giving rise to the 'lazy bummers' perception. True, they may not be lazy bummers, but there isn't a perceived need for them to work hard now, is there?
In any case, the 'patriotism' or 'honor' that you speak of, i'm almost positive that in times of war *any* 1/2 decent singaporean would rise up to the challenge. being a regular dosen't afford him any more chance to skive or awol then any other normal singaporean. and no, going to timor and iraq is most certainly not an indication of their love for singapore. it's for the money. i mean, that's so duh. -
Removed - *double post*
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Why ppl say "hao han bu dang bing"?
I thought the pay scale for regulars isn't too bad...esp officers. I had a course mate from a part-time course who is one, and he's seems to have a grand time...always hear him going out to play golf or entertain some guests on the golf course, and his kah kia wrote most of his project assignments for him. And he drives a car and lives in pte apt.
I don't have a negative view of regulars nor do I pay much attention to them, and I certainly would look up to someone from the commando unit.
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Old ppl's thinkingOriginally posted by Wanda:Why ppl say "hao han bu dang bing"?
I thought the pay scale for regulars isn't too bad...esp officers. I had a course mate from a part-time course who is one, and he's seems to have a grand time...always hear him going out to play golf or entertain some guests on the golf course, and his kah kia wrote most of his project assignments for him. And he drives a car and lives in pte apt.
I don't have a negative view of regulars nor do I pay much attention to them, and I certainly would look up to someone from the commando unit.
My pa that time, he was enlisted in 1970, 3 yrs aft the 1st batch, the old thinking was still there -
pay is pretty good as compare to outside.
decent job, can feed family, can pay conservancy charges, buy hdb flats.
it should be treated like any good career in a big organisation. -
Hmm well I'm sorry that you've had experiences where people look down on your profession. I don't know much about the army, except that I've heard it's no longer an iron rice bowl what with contractual employment and restructuring within. I think the Officers are paid well. And lastly, men in military uniforms are hot
I think a soldier is a profession that's just as good as any in private sectors. Ultimately in any job, the most important factor is job satisfaction, and you should feel proud that you're doing something you enjoy
Originally posted by kAdEn:I replied saying "that not everyone thinks that way though....
because sometimes it's really hard for regular serviceman to tell others their occupation. Most ppl usually look down on them....somewhere along the line, signed on because of no education or lazy to fight in the private sector. And of course, regular serviceman are poorly paid and thus make for very bad husband of choice....especially more so if you were a specialist (sergeant) instead of an officer....". -
Hmm...you've got that point right...Originally posted by lwflee:What i think of SAF regulars:
Its a job. The SAF offers something other jobs can't. For one thing, you are really shielded from 'real' life. It is difficult to starve in the SAF, accom is more or less guaranteed, and, at the end of the day, its not really a difficult job. Now, to say that it is not a diffcult job does not mean that its an easy life; it is not. However, it is something that almost anyone can do because the SAF is really, within reason, quite forgiving towards its members. The pay's not bad at all as well.
However, i think that a career in the SAF is, at the end of the day, an acceptance of mediocrity. I think this applies especially to Specialists. There really isn't anything wrong with mediocrity. A large majority of people have no more than mediocre careers as some kind of office 'executive', or as a 'supervisor' of some sort. But, this applies more to the SAF than elsewhere because, unlike in civvie street where there are clients to win over, presentations to make, networking to do, profit margins to watch, and projects to complete, the aren't really that many ways to shine in the SAF. For the most part, you drift through each post barely even making a ripple in the status quo. You get promoted if you wait long enough (and if you dun fcuk up too badly of course).
But i think they've been trying to work out a solution for this. For e.g performance bonuses, ranking systems....if you are rank below a certain level, your promotion will be affected so on and so forth... -
Not to diss the commandos, but why's that?Originally posted by Wanda:I don't have a negative view of regulars nor do I pay much attention to them, and I certainly would look up to someone from the commando unit.
Apart from the 'improved' IPPT timing for 2.4 gold (which btw, i suspect they cheat on) and the airborne badge (which they only do once), i fail to see where the prestige in commando lies anymore.
Maybe SOF. Commandos? hmm.... -
Since the formation of CRF, the role of the Commandos has expanded to the point where some of the work they're doing is fairly similar to that of SOF. I'd say that the NS Commandos are not like we used to be, but then again, the guys from the early batches would probably say the same thing about my lot. Commando regulars, on the other hand, do maintain higher standards than the NS men out of pride if nothing else, and some of the guys who could quite easily fit into SOF simply choose to stay in the battalion because they prefer their role there. My former platoon sargeant was often asked by the SOF guys why he didn't move over, and he always replied that stayed where he was because he liked working with the men in the battalion.
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humh can i post say something ? heh...
SAF vs private sector each has their plus point.
Private sector are more freedom to move.
SAF giving an totally diff job and lifestyle. More adventure with all the outfield, liferun, oversea training and more stable job.
as for more 'lobo' all depend on which unit you are being posted.
Combat and Reserve.
Combat no need to say much..
Reserve unit depending on which unit you are been posted, if posted to an sub-unit then lots of crapz preparation of admin cum logistic to be done before each training. HQ-unit will pass lots of etc to sub..
but yet again depending on indivdual characters too.
Those 'gu niang' will have problem surviving in army. Coz army do not have all the nice nice environment compare to private sector -
I love my job scope
but i hate the management. And that's whats driving me out. -
I think this is untrue at my workplace.Originally posted by nomood:There is absolutely no need to work hard in the army, since promotion is almost a given according to your entry qualifications. hence giving rise to the 'lazy bummers' perception. True, they may not be lazy bummers, but there isn't a perceived need for them to work hard now, is there?
Most have to work like crazy, and the amount of work we put in, SIA would be paying us more. -
/ saluteOriginally posted by kopiosatu:I love my job scope
but i hate the management. And that's whats driving me out.
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I'm pro-NS. I view it as a duty all Singaporean men have to commit to though the s*** tt i have to go through is undescribable.
But SAF would not be a career choice for me, esp. if it's a specialist n not an officer. I wont' deny that it's a stable career. An iron bowl that is somewhat rare in today's society. For me, it's not the money (hey.. pension n retirement benefits alot leh) but rather the mundane routine n lack dynamicism n challenge.
I do think tt those who sign on are, well, nuts. Esp. my unit. But den again, dont regulars throw the dirty work to NSFs to do?
Seriously, do what u should n like to do. If a career in the SAF is for u, go for it. Though i don't like it, but i don't despise pple who do.
I respect these pple who r willing to be the 1st in the frontline. -
The problem with signing on is that they will get rid of you when you are about 45-50. At that age, what can you do apart from being a taxi driver? Unless you are one of the elite and become a BG...then they park you in some statutory board as CEO....
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WCO n below jialat la but if u r an officer, things aren't that bad. My uncle who's a Colonel got posted to DSTA, drawing the same pay plus pension n retirement benefits. Eeeks..Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The problem with signing on is that they will get rid of you when you are about 45-50. At that age, what can you do apart from being a taxi driver? Unless you are one of the elite and become a BG...then they park you in some statutory board as CEO.... -
i dont think what the specialists do is mediocre.Originally posted by lwflee:However, i think that a career in the SAF is, at the end of the day, an acceptance of mediocrity. I think this applies especially to Specialists. There really isn't anything wrong with mediocrity. A large majority of people have no more than mediocre careers as some kind of office 'executive', or as a 'supervisor' of some sort. But, this applies more to the SAF than elsewhere because, unlike in civvie street where there are clients to win over, presentations to make, networking to do, profit margins to watch, and projects to complete, the aren't really that many ways to shine in the SAF. For the most part, you drift through each post barely even making a ripple in the status quo. You get promoted if you wait long enough (and if you dun fcuk up too badly of course).
but before the argument starts, i must say that this is, after all, a matter of personal opinion.
this mentality that these and some other jobs are mediocre, and there is a need to "accept" mediocrity - it just gives me a sense of either the person not being very onward looking, or that the person is being labelled and looked down upon.
really, why should we consider an executive or supervisor or a specialist in the SAF mediocre?
so being able to do win clients, make presentations, network, watch profit margins, complete projects - that is what a non-mediocre job should consist?
what about nursing, doctoring, counselling, teaching, policing, fire-fighting, etc etc. so those are mediocre as well? i suppose then construction work, toilet cleaning, road-sweeping, etc are mediocre then?
if a person thinks what he/she is doing is indeed mediocre and he/she chooses to accept it, then it is quite sad. other than that, i don't think we should make such comments as to label jobs (and hence connote the persons in the job) as mediocre.