Singaporeans. Educated but Uncultured?
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The point here is not being boisterious due to club culture etc. I know that no nationality is perfect. No one is. The point here is that alot of Singaporeans act as if they are KING and everyone else are slaves. They think that 'because they are Singaporean' they have the right to do anything they want. I'm talking about scenerios where they are in the wrong, or not entitled to, but still demand their 'rights', or they think that their judgement is correct and just because you hold a different opinion, you're wrong.Originally posted by Gazelle:There are always a good and bad side to any race or nationality and there is no such thing as the perfect one.
English for example are polite in general but they are also hooligans with comes to football and drinking in the pub.
American are generally very helpful and caring, but most of the time they like to talk BIG.
I think the newer generation of Singaporeans are becoming overly conscious about trying to be "Right" the western way and along the process they are lossing their own identity as a Singaporean or Asian.
Let be more original because the East can never be the West and vice versa.
Dont let the western people tell you that eating fish head and durian is uncool.
It is basically about the unreasonable and sometimes illogical demands that they expect from others. Also, these obnoxious behavior tends to be towards our neighbours. We seldom see this 'holier than thou' attitude towards the West. -
Actually I guess it is because we are just too well educatedOriginally posted by elindra:+2
It can be pretty embarressing at times especially in a foreign land and your own countrymen cannot behave themselves and act like spoilt kids. -
Your desciption of Singaporeans sound so much like the french culture isnt it?Originally posted by elindra:The point here is that alot of Singaporeans act as if they are KING and everyone else are slaves. They think that 'because they are Singaporean' they have the right to do anything they want. I'm talking about scenerios where they are in the wrong, or not entitled to, but still demand their 'rights', or they think that their judgement is correct and just because you hold a different opinion, you're wrong.
I am just wondering if skin color does play apart when making judgement. -
We are, relatively in comparison to our neighbours.Originally posted by sbst275:Actually I guess it is because we are just too well educated -
There's etiquette that's common to both East and West, such as dressing appropriately for functions, not wasting food, not being obnoxious, cleaning up after yourself and so on, and some Singaporeans fail even in this.
Being "polite in the Western way" is better than being not polite at all, though ideally we should adopt the mantra 'when in Rome, do as Romans do.'
No one has told me that eating durians, fish head and belacan is uncool...at most they turn up their noses the way some of us do when we get anywhere near cheese.Originally posted by Gazelle:There are always a good and bad side to any race or nationality and there is no such thing as the perfect one.
English for example are polite in general but they are also hooligans with comes to football and drinking in the pub.
American are generally very helpful and caring, but most of the time they like to talk BIG.
I think the newer generation of Singaporeans are becoming overly conscious about trying to be "Right" the western way and along the process they are lossing their own identity as a Singaporean or Asian.
Let be more original because the East can never be the West and vice versa.
Dont let the western people tell you that eating fish head and durian is uncool. -
Not wasting food? the west throw away all their fish head, pig intestine etc, they only consume the crawl of the crab and throw away the body. that is consider wasting food if you speak to any asian.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:There's etiquette that's common to both East and West, such as dressing appropriately for functions, not wasting food, not being obnoxious, cleaning up after yourself and so on, and some Singaporeans fail even in this.
Being "polite in the Western way" is better than being not polite at all, though ideally we should adopt the mantra 'when in Rome, do as Romans do.'
No one has told me that eating durians, fish head and belacan is uncool...at most they turn up their noses the way some of us do when we get anywhere near cheese.
one can only dress "appropriately" if you have got the money to buy a nice suit, leather shoe, leather belt, nice watch, nice collar shirt. In kampong dressing appropriately is sarong.
Personal hygiene has got to do with education and standard of living. There is no meaning trying to criticize a nationality just because of a few "bad" apples. Honestly I wont even consider all of them bad apple, just that they are the people who dont understand or dig the western culture. -
Btw, Etiquette is a french word, and they are not universal. Therefore, what is a good etiquette in one society may differ in another. So lets not try using western style etiquette to judge the Asian culture.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:There's etiquette that's common to both East and West, such as dressing appropriately for functions, not wasting food, not being obnoxious, cleaning up after yourself and so on, and some Singaporeans fail even in this.
Being "polite in the Western way" is better than being not polite at all, though ideally we should adopt the mantra 'when in Rome, do as Romans do.'
No one has told me that eating durians, fish head and belacan is uncool...at most they turn up their noses the way some of us do when we get anywhere near cheese.
Etiquette is nothing but expectation of how people should conduct themselves and it restrict freedom of expression and interaction. -
They don't do that now. They realised that they can make a fortune selling these to AsiaOriginally posted by Gazelle:Not wasting food? the west throw away all their fish head, pig intestine etc, they only consume the crawl of the crab and throw away the body. that is consider wasting food if you speak to any asian.
Well most people do judge by skin color and do behave differently to someone of a different skin color. And this applies to all nationalities, not only Singaporeans. -
I think too much of elitist education system is doing great hardOriginally posted by LazerLordz:We are, relatively in comparison to our neighbours. -
Hence I used the maxim, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do." Which also means dressing down if your fellow guests are doing so. Of course, if you can't afford a suit or forgot to bring one along for the trip, few will find fault with you.
I admit I wasn't clear enough in my previous post. I doubt this behaviour is acceptable anywhere in the world:
- (At a buffet spread) Piling food on your plate, and then refusing to eat more than a little bit
- Breaking your hosts' crockery when you're impatient
- Holding a sit-down protest in an airplane or a theatre because of something which irritated you
- Littering (eveyone else around you might be doing it but you know better)
- Picking and destroying flora and fauna from a nature reserve park (in spite of the signs around you)
It's all stuff we've encountered before or read in the papers. We're focusing on this in this thread (as opposed to how you should spoon your soup, follow superstitious practices or speak to one another). And such behaviour is disgraceful when we talk about being a gracious society and a first-world nation.
True, there are white people and other Asians who also behave like imbeciles on our soil, but we're guilty of it as well. "You see the speck in your neighbour's eye, but you don't see the log in your own eye." A log because such manners are unworthy of our (presumed) upbringing, we treat our own people the same, we criticise visitors and yet we want to be a top tourist attraction.Originally posted by Gazelle:Not wasting food? the west throw away all their fish head, pig intestine etc, they only consume the crawl of the crab and throw away the body. that is consider wasting food if you speak to any asian.
one can only dress "appropriately" if you have got the money to buy a nice suit, leather shoe, leather belt, nice watch, nice collar shirt. In kampong dressing appropriately is sarong.
Personal hygiene has got to do with education and standard of living. There is no meaning trying to criticize a nationality just because of a few "bad" apples. Honestly I wont even consider all of them bad apple, just that they are the people who dont understand or dig the western culture.
Btw, Etiquette is a french word, and they are not universal. Therefore, what is a good etiquette in one society may differ in another. So lets not try using western style etiquette to judge the Asian culture.
Etiquette is nothing but expectation of how people should conduct themselves and it restrict freedom of expression and interaction. -
It cant be as bad as armed robbery, killing your school teacher and classmate , billion dollars corporate fraud, obesity, pushing cocaine on the street, illegal logging, global warming, graffiti, invading iraq isnt it?Originally posted by Kuali Baba:- (At a buffet spread) Piling food on your plate, and then refusing to eat more than a little bit
- Breaking your hosts' crockery when you're impatient
- Holding a sit-down protest in an airplane or a theatre because of something which irritated you
- Littering (eveyone else around you might be doing it but you know better)
- Picking and destroying flora and fauna from a nature reserve park (in spite of the signs around you)
Lets not get so uptight about trying to be THE role model and lets live life the way you are borned to live. that is the Asian way. -
Humm. Agree and disagree. When you say cultured or Uncultured - the question is... what culture are you referring to?
Often we take our cue from western countries and forget that traditionally it is the Asians that are famous for their rites.
The Indians have Namaste in greeting to show equality and brotherhood.
The Japanese bow. The Chinese have an entire bible on 'li ly' rites on what to do between people of different positions and status. We can go on and on.
However, as we grow to 'despise' our feudalistic roots, we appear to 'forget' that the Asians have every bit of right to be polite in our own way as it is for the Occidental! It doesn't NEED to be servile - for some reason Oriental courtesy always seem to be associated with service. And we dont have to just 'learn' from the 'westerners', we can start by learning from ourselves - Asian-style humility, diplomacy, courtesy and hospitality.
With regard to comment about westerners not having the 'holier-than-thou' attitude.. i beg to differ. Lots of them do - they just show it differently. -
Spoken like someone who gets his news about the west only from Hollywood movies and The National Enquirer rag.Originally posted by Gazelle:It cant be as bad as armed robbery, killing your school teacher and classmate , billion dollars corporate fraud, obesity, pushing cocaine on the street, illegal logging, global warming, graffiti, invading iraq isnt it?
I take it you have not lived in the west for any length of time?
You'll find that many westerners share the same philosophy towards life, i.e., living life the way one was born (no ed) to live.Originally posted by Gazelle:Lets not get so uptight about trying to be THE role model and lets live life the way you are borned to live. that is the Asian way. -
I prefer asia anytime to the west. Why should I choose to live in a white cunt country and get those racist remarks or being call Chins. I am happily living in this warm and peaceful country.Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:Spoken like someone who gets his news about the west only from Hollywood movies and The National Enquirer rag.
I take it you have not lived in the west for any length of time?
So what are getting at? West is better than the East? -
Just curious: what accounts for your hostility towards the west? Are you basing your hatred on second-hand accounts conveyed via the popular media, or were you the victim of some kind of racially-motivated slur or attack perpetrated by a westerner?Originally posted by Gazelle:I prefer asia anytime to the west. Why should I choose to live in a white cunt country and get those racist remarks or being call Chins. I am happily living in this warm and peaceful country.
So what are getting at? West is better than the East?
If the latter, I could perhaps understand some of your hostility. But if it's the former, my only advice to you is to not take everything you read or see in the popular media as gospel. -
Not making any comparison or making racial remarks here, I was just stating the fact that every country and culture have its up and down side, so dont always assume that western culture is better than the east, and everybody has to behave like the west in order to fit into this society.Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:Just curious: what accounts for your hostility towards the west? Are you basing your hatred on second-hand accounts conveyed via the popular media, or were you the victim of some kind of racially-motivated slur or attack perpetrated by a westerner?
If the latter, I could perhaps understand some of your hostility. But if it's the former, my only advice to you is to not take everything you read or see in the popular media as gospel.
As for my experience and knowledge about the west, it a mixture of many things, media, papers, magazine, personal visits, talking to people from around the world, and some personal encounter. -
*Sigh*Originally posted by Gazelle:Not making any comparison or making racial remarks here, I was just stating the fact that every country and culture have its up and down side, so dont always assume that western culture is better than the east, and everybody has to behave like the west in order to fit into this society.
As for my experience and knowledge about the west, it a mixture of many things, media, papers, magazine, personal visits, talking to people from around the world, and some personal encounter.
No one in this thread said anything about the West is better than the East.
The thread started because of what we see overseas, on the behavior of our own fellow countrymen who are totally obnoxious in behavior especially in neighbouring countries.
The way they behave lacks in any form of basic respect given to another human being, as if they are superior over the other is what I meant. Of course I have seen worse behavior committed by citizens of another country but you don't compare with people behaving worse than you because that is a really sick form of justification for bad behavior. AND I'm not talking about the West here. (as in saying that we should model after their behavior) -
If you are talking about showing respect in the foreign land, I think westerner (especially the Americans) has the worst behaviour.Originally posted by elindra:*Sigh*
No one in this thread said anything about the West is better than the East.
The thread started because of what we see overseas, on the behavior of our own fellow countrymen who are totally obnoxious in behavior especially in neighbouring countries.
The way they behave lacks in any form of basic respect given to another human being, as if they are superior over the other is what I meant. Of course I have seen worse behavior committed by citizens of another country but you don't compare with people behaving worse than you because that is a really sick form of justification for bad behavior. AND I'm not talking about the West here.
Have you heard of caucasian gang banging chicks from orchard towers?
US marines raping Japanese girl at Okinawa? Michael Fay vandalizing case, British molesting boys in thailand etc. Is this a better way of showing respect or saying halo to fellow citizens from another country? -
I just said that we should not compare with peeps who are behaving worse than us....it's kinda pointless isn't it?Originally posted by Gazelle:If you are talking about showing respect in the foreign land, I think westerner (especially the Americans) has the worst behaviour.
Have you heard of caucasian gang banging chicks from orchard towers?
US marines raping Japanese girl at Okinawa? Michael Fay vandalizing case, British molesting boys in thailand etc. Is this a better way of showing respect or saying halo to fellow citizens from another country?
I call that 'Bi Sai' (Comparing shit with shit) and not competing to be better. -
I understand where you coming from. But most of the arguements and comments here are one sided and it is towards the western culture.Originally posted by elindra:I just said that we should not compare with peeps who are behaving worse than us....it's kinda pointless isn't it?
I call that 'Bi Sai' (Comparing shit with shit) and not competing to be better.
E.g. in the west, we are suppose drink soup, eat our soup noodles without making noise. In Asia, we like to do the opposite. In case like this, are you saying that Asian or Singaporeans are uncultured?
And dont forget that not many Asians are exposed to western culture like we do, so if we see Korean or taiwanese behaving like Korean or Taiwanese I think we should just accept the fact that they are behaving like what they are and not uncultured or rude. -
Ok on your line of argument but back to the topic to Singaporeans where we do not really have a Western nor Asian identity as we are really a mixture of both.Originally posted by Gazelle:I understand where you coming from. But most of the arguements and comments here are one sided and it is towards the western culture.
E.g. in the west, we are suppose drink soup, eat our soup noodles without make noise. In Asia, we like to do the opposite. In case like this, are you saying that Asian or Singaporeans are uncultured?
And dont forget that not many Asians are exposed to western culture like we do, so if we see Korean or taiwanese behaving like Korean or Taiwanese I think we should just accept the fact that they are behaving like what they are and not uncultured or rude.
Shouldn't we take the best of both cultures since we can have the best of both worlds -
You know, when you look back at his arguments, don't you find it strange that for a person who just claimed he has lived and worked in the West, why is it that his arguments are those you can find in the Straits Times archives.Do we see any evidence stating otherwise?Originally posted by elindra:I just said that we should not compare with peeps who are behaving worse than us....it's kinda pointless isn't it?
I call that 'Bi Sai' (Comparing shit with shit) and not competing to be better.
I smell untenable evidence and a biased opinion.And no culture is limited to such to-be-desired mere cultural discourse.
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It is up to you do decided what you want, but please dont expect every singaporeans or asian to think what you "think" is the best for this small and congested world.Originally posted by elindra:Shouldn't we take the best of both cultures since we can have the best of both worlds
To me Singaporeans should just learn to be proud of who we are and stop trying to be the best of both world, or thinking there is a so call THE perfect culture. -
He is lying.Originally posted by LazerLordz:You know, when you look back at his arguments, don't you find it strange that for a person who just claimed he has lived and worked in the West, why is it that his arguments are those you can find in the Straits Times archives.Do we see any evidence stating otherwise?
I smell untenable evidence and a biased opinion.And no culture is limited to such to-be-desired mere cultural discourse. -
1) Of course not. Neither is a white man who does that in, say, Japan. Again it's about 'doing as the Romans do in Rome'. And for that one needs to read up.Originally posted by Gazelle:In the west, we are suppose drink soup, eat our soup noodles without making noise. In Asia, we like to do the opposite. In case like this, are you saying that Asian or Singaporeans are uncultured?
To me Singaporeans should just learn to be proud of who we are and stop trying to be the best of both world, or thinking there is a so call THE perfect culture.
2) You say we should 'be proud of who we are', but I'm interested to hear you describe this identity we have...what is it? I won't be surprised if a foreigner says we're 'a pampered, apathetic bunch of people who don't know how to conduct themselves in other countries...and couldn't care less.'