Singaporeans. Educated but Uncultured?
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If thats the case, then why dont you just focus your arguement on indian instead? And why do you have to drag the whole country down just because of few bad apples? Is he the ambassdor of Singapore?Originally posted by Kuali Baba:I have met a small number of European (of white and African descent) friends who thought Singapore is in China, but most of them know their Geography.
My criticism isn't directed at those of Chinese descent (and as my title says, I'm a baba). Remember the guy who smashed the hotel's crockery as I described some posts ago? He was Singaporean of Indian descent. And the tour groups I'd been with were mixed...sometimes the behaviour of the other people in the group made me want to cover my head with a paper bag. -
Everyone is a little ambassador of their country whenever they go abroad. Like it or not everyone generalises based on their personal encounters and what they see and read - the same goes for our hosts overseas when they meet us.Originally posted by Gazelle:If thats the case, then why dont you just focus your arguement on indian instead? And why do you have to drag the whole country down just because of few bad apples? Is he the ambassdor of Singapore?
(Which is why I'm going to be on my best behaviour when I meet my girlfriend's family and friends...I hazard that most, if not all, of them haven't met a Singaporean in person. I'm not going to be polite the Western or Eastern way...I'm going to be polite as a decent human being, and at the same time respect their practices.)
I'm not dragging the whole country down, I'm criticising the bad apples (all of them) and the Indian chap is but one example. The bad apples are the ones who are dragging the whole country down - I'm ashamed of them all, and unfortunately they form a significant-enough minority that can't be ignored.
And since I haven't done so yet...I say those Korean fellars mentioned on the first page of this thread aren't any better. -
by that arguement, we should all behave like cavemen.
can you pass word between your ears before you sprout them?Originally posted by curio t:singaporeans are uncultured because of their legacy and roots.
their forefather are coolies and uneducated, and illiterate, so they bring with them very low level of culture to their new home. so when they raise their offsprings until this generation, they impart very little that is cultural, educated and refined. how many read books, recite phrases and practise calligraphy? very very few, i fear. they are descendants of peasants, farmers, lowskilled worker, manual workers... the lowest level in the chinese society that strike rich in a new land. such is the legacy of many chinese singaporeans. -
KB, you're right that the minute we're abroad, like it or not, we are little ambassadors for Singapore. Afterall, depending on where we go and who we meet, we might be the first and only Singaporeans those folks have ever met, and they would tend to form their first opinions based on how they perceive us, how we behave, etc.
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It is also very degrading to see Singaporeans criticizing Singaporeans for little things that happen everywhere and to every nationality in this world. Why do you have this thinking that Singaporeans must be PERFECT? Who is setting the benchmark here?Originally posted by Rhonda:KB, you're right that the minute we're abroad, like it or not, we are little ambassadors for Singapore. Afterall, depending on where we go and who we meet, we might be the first and only Singaporeans those folks have ever met, and they would tend to form their first opinions based on how they perceive us, how we behave, etc.
Lets be realistic, which country doesnt have bad apples? Do you have statistic to proof that Singapore is more worst off that other country in this world? And who is to judge what is good and what is bad? Are we using western culture to benchmark an Asian country? -
This arguement is just to remind you who you are and where you come from. So dont try to act like Ang Moh when your gene still consist of durian, mee pok and kangkong balachan.Originally posted by ilovemyrolex:by that arguement, we should all behave like cavemen.
can you pass word between your ears before you sprout them?
you wont look rich or desirable just because you wear a rolex right? -
You are dragging the whole country down by giving FALSE impression that Singapore has more bad apples than other country in this world, including China and America.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:Everyone is a little ambassador of their country whenever they go abroad. Like it or not everyone generalises based on their personal encounters and what they see and read - the same goes for our hosts overseas when they meet us.
(Which is why I'm going to be on my best behaviour when I meet my girlfriend's family and friends...I hazard that most, if not all, of them haven't met a Singaporean in person. I'm not going to be polite the Western or Eastern way...I'm going to be polite as a decent human being, and at the same time respect their practices.)
I'm not dragging the whole country down, I'm criticising the bad apples (all of them) and the Indian chap is but one example. The bad apples are the ones who are dragging the whole country down - I'm ashamed of them all, and unfortunately they form a significant-enough minority that can't be ignored.
And since I haven't done so yet...I say those Korean fellars mentioned on the first page of this thread aren't any better. -
Right, we are all human. Nobody said there are countries without awful people. But that doesn't mean we don't have a right to point out the flaws in ourselves and other people. Nobody said we have the most by an outstanding margin. But we ought to think it's sad that a stereotype of a rude Singaporean exists, just as there are stereotypes boorish Chinese tourists, British hooligans and so on, because of these clowns. Nobody here is criticising any one entire country - only the boorish sector of their respective populations.Originally posted by Gazelle:It is also very degrading to see Singaporeans criticizing Singaporeans for little things that happen everywhere and to every nationality in this world. Why do you have this thinking that Singaporeans must be PERFECT? Who is setting the benchmark here?
Lets be realistic, which country doesnt have bad apples? Do you have statistic to proof that Singapore is more worst off that other country in this world? And who is to judge what is good and what is bad? Are we using western culture to benchmark an Asian country?
...You are dragging the whole country down by giving FALSE impression that Singapore has more bad apples than other country in this world, including China and America.
And FFS put an end to your harping about people following Western culture and standards. We're not even talking about that. Is it so difficult to see and understand that we're using decent human behaviour to benchmark an educated people? -
Oh, and so by your very logic, just because we're Singaporeans, we are not allowed to criticise fellow Singaporeans and everything that our fellow citizens do is correct and beyond reproach?Originally posted by Gazelle:It is also very degrading to see Singaporeans criticizing Singaporeans for little things that happen everywhere and to every nationality in this world. Why do you have this thinking that Singaporeans must be PERFECT? Who is setting the benchmark here?
Lets be realistic, which country doesnt have bad apples? Do you have statistic to proof that Singapore is more worst off that other country in this world? And who is to judge what is good and what is bad? Are we using western culture to benchmark an Asian country?
That is so ethnic-centric.
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Have you forgotten what you have pledge every morning when you are in school?Originally posted by Rhonda:Oh, and so by your very logic, just because we're Singaporeans, we are not allowed to criticise fellow Singaporeans and everything that our fellow citizens do is correct and beyond reproach?
That is so ethnic-centric.
"We, the citizen of Singapore, pledge ourselves as one united people, regardless of race, language or religion" -
What about those indecent and uneducated? Are they supposed to be threated like second class citizen and be criticized and condemned by a bunch of educated fools who have not clue about their own country history and roots of their ancestor?Originally posted by Kuali Baba:Right, we are all human. Nobody said there are countries without awful people. But that doesn't mean we don't have a right to point out the flaws in ourselves and other people. Nobody said we have the most by an outstanding margin. But we ought to think it's sad that a stereotype of a rude Singaporean exists, just as there are stereotypes boorish Chinese tourists, British hooligans and so on, because of these clowns. Nobody here is criticising any one entire country - only the boorish sector of their respective populations.
And FFS put an end to your harping about people following Western culture and standards. We're not even talking about that. Is it so difficult to see and understand that we're using decent human behaviour to benchmark an educated people? -
And you expect to follow this blindly, sans judgement, sans good sense, sans all critical faculties?Originally posted by Gazelle:Have you forgotten what you have pledge every morning when you are in school?
"We, the citizen of Singapore, pledge ourselves as one united people, regardless of race, language or religion"
What are you now? Some kinda Singaporean nazi? -
Singaporean or not, bad behaviour is bad behaviour. You call it mature, objective judgement to waive someone from all responsibilities for obnoxious behaviour just cause he's a fellow citizen?
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Y'know, time and again, we tolerate your presence in here. Time and again, you come in and are obviously unwelcome. And yet, you keep on coming in to an 'elitist' forum full of folks you profess to dislike and like to taunt.
WHY?? Do you have no one else in your life to irritate? 
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No, and yes. The least we can do is to give them another chance, share that whatever the person (who somehow wasn't groomed at home and didn't go to school) was doing wasn't right, and hope he/she and others have the humility to learn. If he/she is too proud and self-righteous, then what other way do we show our disapproval of such behaviour?Originally posted by Gazelle:What about those indecent and uneducated? Are they supposed to be threated like second class citizen and be criticized and condemned by a bunch of educated fools who have not clue about their own country history and roots of their ancestor?
On another note, it's shocking that there are people who've been through school (and even to university) but behave as if that education didn't count, both here and abroad. And at least some of them must feature in the stories you hear, the articles you read and your own experiences. Disappointing, isn't it? -
I would prefer that you criticize bad bahaviour in general and dont just limit it to Singaporeans.Originally posted by Rhonda:Singaporean or not, bad behaviour is bad behaviour. You call it mature, objective judgement to waive someone from all responsibilities for obnoxious behaviour just cause he's a fellow citizen? -
Did you miss our criticism of boorish Koreans on the first page of this thread? Or my mention of Bill Clinton's travelling party wasting food in the other thread?Originally posted by Gazelle:I would prefer that you criticize bad bahaviour in general and dont just limit it to Singaporeans. -
This is a thread started by someone who wanted to narrow down the discussion to just Singaporeans alone. And that is why we're discussing about that in here.Originally posted by Gazelle:I would prefer that you criticize bad bahaviour in general and dont just limit it to Singaporeans.
You are always free to start a thread about the bad behaviour of other nationalities if you want. No one's stopping you. -
And (let me add) while you're at it, don't forget about the rotting log in Singapore's eye.Originally posted by Rhonda:You are always free to start a thread about the bad behaviour of other nationalities if you want. No one's stopping you. -
We haven't forgotten that cuz this entire thread's all about the rot, right?Originally posted by Kuali Baba:And (let me add) while you're at it, don't forget about the rotting log in Singapore's eye. -
criticising them in this forum (especially club30) is definitely of no help to solving anything, so dont try to pretend to be mr. nice guys here.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:No, and yes. The least we can do is to give them another chance, share that whatever the person (who somehow wasn't groomed at home and didn't go to school) was doing wasn't right, and hope he/she and others have the humility to learn. If he/she is too proud and self-righteous, then what other way do we show our disapproval of such behaviour?
On another note, it's shocking that there are people who've been through school (and even university) but behave as if that education didn't count, both here and abroad. And at least some of the must feature in the stories you hear, the articles you read and your own experiences. Disappointing, isn't it?
And btw, what do you mean that giving them another chance? Are you treating yourself like some kind of God? Or like the Saudis or shiek of the arab world?
Disappointing? Of course you will be, because there is no such thing as a perfect world. Even if you are God you will be disappointed because the people you created are also misbehaving themselves. -
If I would to start a thread, it you will be called The Bad Mouth of Club30.Originally posted by Rhonda:This is a thread started by someone who wanted to narrow down the discussion to just Singaporeans alone. And that is why we're discussing about that in here.
You are always free to start a thread about the bad behaviour of other nationalities if you want. No one's stopping you.
The thread starter probably thinks that everybody here in club30 is so perfect that such a topic will arouse so must excitement and fun from criticising and badmouthing other singaporeans. -
I don't know about the rest, but I never claimed to be nice.Originally posted by Gazelle:criticising them in this forum (especially club30) is definitely of no help to solving anything, so dont try to pretend to be mr. nice guys here.
And btw, what do you mean that giving them another chance? Are you treating yourself like some kind of God? Or like the Saudis or shiek of the arab world?
Disappointing? Of course you will be, because there is no such thing as a perfect world. Even if you are God you will be disappointed because the people you created are also misbehaving themselves.
Allow me to make things in my post (which you quoted) clearer. The advice is meant to be given in real life. And by 'giving another chance' I mean giving the benefit of a doubt.
I am idealistic, and I'm not making any apologies for it. There's little wrong with trying to work towards perfection - through actions performed in real life, of course. -
Since you are so high and mighty, leave us alone! For an entire year, you've been unwelcome in here. If our discussions irk you so much, please ignore us and let us be.
Who do you think you are? God stepping in to chide us? 
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T'was adressed to Gazelle, as a reminder when he picks specks in foreign eyes.Originally posted by Rhonda:We haven't forgotten that cuz this entire thread's all about the rot, right?