Quacks online
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I have been a member for quite a while. A few forumners have known me as a registered nurse .
The thing that pisses me off is that one moderator can claim that they are well versed in some obscure therapy (hippo therapy) and implied that they are qualified to answer because they read medical books when they are young or by birth right just because their parents are doctors. It is like that auntie in the doctor's clinic who claims she is a nurse but in actual fact only knows how to dispense medicines and picked up some knowledge of what they do, without the proper qualifications AT ALL.
To be fair ,some moderators in that said forum are ok in answering and might well can be guessed to be in the healthcare industry . When all fails , the IT explanation comes in - if people can give advice on IT , so can I give advice on medical questions . I think this is dangerous - a computer can be replaced but just not a life of a human being.
Never mind I have been locked out in one thread because the moderator felt threatened .People can put up their opinions of what they do with their zits - it is fine - since they don't imply they are dermatologists. That would common hall gossip like school days - oh I use soandso brand and it is very good - and it doesn't hurt unless ur skin craps up then people end up seeing a dermatologist and cursing their friends who they cannot hold responsible because they are not qualified .
I just think it is dangerous to imply that a person is medically qualified to answer a question- like I caught that person for wrong info given and of course there were excuses and more excuses ( my mommy is a doctor etc and she ask the specialist who told her then she tell me ) when I asked for reference from a refereed journal . What do you guys think ? -
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=175474&page=1
Have a look for yourself . -
honestly I believe that what happens in the thread should always remain in the thread. What is the point of starting another thread in another forum just to get back at them? you are just looking for some comforting isnt it?
If you think this is dangerous, what about those advice they give in Aunty Agony? -
fymk, I think what you did is overboard. If you can't agree with the moderators at the medical forum, is there a need for you start a new thread to flame them? As I said, everyone of us is different. One man's meat may be another one's poison.
Had you been to medical forum earlier, you would have known what happened. I already say I don't want history to be repeated. If you believe one should be registered, have the necessary qualifications and credentials to be a doctor or a nurse, then I tell you that you are dead wrong. Some Singaporeans out there know basic first aid and CPR. Most of them have certificates that certify them that they know all these. Who are we to say that if they can't save a person in distress means that they are quakes? It could be there is something wrong with the person in distress and CPR worsen it. The person saving didn't know that because he isn't a doctor. What he knows is that he needs to help that person. He didn't know his help would result in something so serious.
While you need all these to give patients drugs, you don't need all these to give advice. Everyone can give advice, we have been sick some time in our life and if another person has similar symptoms, he can give advice.
Please read up more. There is such thing as a hippotherapy. I have read it somewhere, but can't quite recall it. It is a very useful therapy and studies have proved it. I don't care if you buy the IT explanation, the human life indeed cannot be replaced, but the process of diagnosing the root problem is the same. What you see is the end result of the whole process, not the process itself.
If you are being questioned in the same way, wouldn't you defend yourself? Put yourself in other people's shoes and think. In the virtual world, one can just lock the thread if they are threatened. In the real world, if you are being surrounded by a group of people, the first thing you will do is to run away. Would you stay there and fight? What's the chance you would come out alive if you fight? So what if you are a martial artist? Is martial arts supposed to be used this way? -
[I just don't agree with one moderator . The rest I have nothing to say about. I am talking about wrong info give which one is not qualified to give on unless they can back what is said with something scientific written by experts . That was not done at all .
I am just putting forward the dangers of having quacks online. Is that so wrong?
Hippotherapy is just another arcane therapy just like aromatherapy - plenty of skeptics all around , however some Physiotherapists and Occupational Therapists believe in it but she said she is working in the legal side or something . Credibility gone.
And even if she does write up research issues - where is the publication issues and published where? Or is it another secret . Clinical trials? Where? . Hippo therapy is some therapeutic riding given on a horse's back and research are written in UK and USA that much I know and it makes me sceptical since horses are not found commonly in Singapore cept for race courses and the Mandai zoo . Unless she is not in Singapore - then again with a young awarded writer like her , there should be limelight ! What awards she won - equine riding awards at 16 - good for her ! I got awarded for environmental awareness but that doesn't make me an environmental scientist does it?
Animals are also known to relieve and make people happy . Anything goes ...there is a pet therapy thing - so next time let's all call those kind volunteers who bring pets to hospitals pettotherapists as well .
There are such things as support groups where one person has a similar disease to others. Yes they will be qualified in a personal way to give advice on how to relieve them since they share the similarities and the same type of suffering . But is it a support group? They do say renal patients know a great deal more about their condition but they have been afflicted with a chronic condition for so long that they have just found everything and anything about it . Note the words : afflicted with the condition . Not some nobody who has no idea of what entails .
Yes maybe putting it in this forum maybe not be a good idea but hey what's the problem with asking? People occasionally just put up other forum threads to ask for opinions .That is all .
ndmmxiaomayi , it is nothing personal but I certainly don't like the idea or the behaviour of how she has responded, just like I don't like aunties in GP offices claiming to be a nurse when they are not . It is not flaming - she admitted to not being qualified and I am highlighting the facts . Check a definition of a quack . I certainly don't need her to tell me how many courses she has done or how her parents are doctors to deserve being as " good "as a doctor . Flaming constitutes insults that may not even be true. I am not insulting her - I am ,like I said again , highlighting the facts .
Then again why do I care - it is a matter of safety to human lives . You may not see it that way but I do see it that way .
Up to her to gain pity by resigning . I only said she should have backed it up with something written by known experts or refer that person to a website who is credible and have qualified personnel minding it . Instead I got a load of crap to read after that about HOW medically knowledgeable she is .
I said my peace - I know ndmmxiaomayi , you are going to start some bs on me as well . So be it . I don't really care. I just pointed out what was wrong . IF people cannot take criticism and improve , then that is just too bad .
Frankly if I were her , I would just back off and say ok , will back it up with some proof from expert sources or at least stick some wellknown credible medical q & A websites , instead of writing about her whole history of wanting to be a doctor . -
It's very clear that the advice dispensed there is for information and not to be taken seriously as a formal medical opinion.
Does it mean I must be an heliborne ops trained trooper to comment about Guards operations in the SAF Forum?Anyone with an iota of common sense would know how to use advice dispensed over the internet with a lil pinch of salt.
Fymk, I know where you are coming from, but don't you think that if a person is so stupid and half-arsed to blindly follow advice from one source and think it to be the hallowed cure, then its that person's own fault.
You could throw 10 other opinions at him and it would just float right by.The other forum does not qualify to be a quack forum, simply because in the very first place, it has been stated as a discussion place to know more about definitions in the healthcare arena and sort of like an advanced "know-your-body" realm of discussion.
You don't have to be a registered doctor or nurse to discuss medical topics in a place where our opinions hold no legal weightage, furthermore, its an open forum, so if you disagree with it, rebut them in a professional way, instead of name-calling etc. -
There's a phrase which I always say to my family members: If you can't agree with others, do it yourself. Do it your own way. Just like if you can't stand the company's politics. Go set up a business yourself. If you don't have the capital to do so, then don't complain.Originally posted by fymk:[I just don't agree with one moderator . The rest I have nothing to say about. I am talking about wrong info give which one is not qualified to give on unless they can back what is said with something scientific written by experts . That was not done at all .
I am just putting forward the dangers of having quacks online. Is that so wrong?
Hippotherapy is just another arcane therapy just like aromatherapy - plenty of skeptics all around , however some Physiotherapists and Occupational Therapists believe in it but she said she is working in the legal side or something . Credibility gone.
And even if she does write up research issues - where is the publication issues and published where? Or is it another secret . Clinical trials? Where? . Hippo therapy is some therapeutic riding given on a horse's back and research are written in UK and USA that much I know and it makes me sceptical since horses are not found commonly in Singapore cept for race courses and the Mandai zoo . Unless she is not in Singapore - then again with a young awarded writer like her , there should be limelight ! What awards she won - equine riding awards at 16 - good for her ! I got awarded for environmental awareness but that doesn't make me an environmental scientist does it?
Animals are also known to relieve and make people happy . Anything goes ...there is a pet therapy thing - so next time let's all call those kind volunteers who bring pets to hospitals pettotherapists as well .
There are such things as support groups where one person has a similar disease to others. Yes they will be qualified in a personal way to give advice on how to relieve them since they share the similarities and the same type of suffering . But is it a support group? They do say renal patients know a great deal more about their condition but they have been afflicted with a chronic condition for so long that they have just found everything and anything about it . Note the words : afflicted with the condition . Not some nobody who has no idea of what entails .
Yes maybe putting it in this forum maybe not be a good idea but hey what's the problem with asking? People occasionally just put up other forum threads to ask for opinions .That is all .
ndmmxiaomayi , it is nothing personal but I certainly don't like the idea or the behaviour of how she has responded, just like I don't like aunties in GP offices claiming to be a nurse when they are not . It is not flaming - she admitted to not being qualified and I am highlighting the facts . Check a definition of a quack . I certainly don't need her to tell me how many courses she has done or how her parents are doctors to deserve being as " good "as a doctor . Flaming constitutes insults that may not even be true. I am not insulting her - I am ,like I said again , highlighting the facts .
Then again why do I care - it is a matter of safety to human lives . You may not see it that way but I do see it that way .
Up to her to gain pity by resigning . I only said she should have backed it up with something written by known experts or refer that person to a website who is credible and have qualified personnel minding it . Instead I got a load of crap to read after that about HOW medically knowledgeable she is .
I said my peace - I know ndmmxiaomayi , you are going to start some bs on me as well . So be it . I don't really care. I just pointed out what was wrong . IF people cannot take criticism and improve , then that is just too bad .
Frankly if I were her , I would just back off and say ok , will back it up with some proof from expert sources or at least stick some wellknown credible medical q & A websites , instead of writing about her whole history of wanting to be a doctor .
Flaming or not, I see it that way. I have already say this a lot of times, I don't want to see history being repeated. Already one moderator has left because some idiot did the same thing.
If you say you will back off and say ok, back it up with proof from expert sources, then I will say that you are dead wrong. I just got the experience of councelling people yesterday. Putting yourself in their shoes to think and say that you will do that will be completely opposite when it happens to you in reality. My teacher shot that question to us yesterday. And he showed classic cases when it did not happen. It happened to me, though my case will be very different. My answer before it happened was I will do whatever that is possible, when it happened to me, I did completely the opposite. -
Frankly , if whoever just relied on the forum for medical advice and treatment wthout seeking a qualified medical doctor is just as naive. I therefore believe that the fourmite will not put much credit to the advisor especially we don't even know if the advisor is indeed a qualified medical personnel.
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I have to say this - I'm not interested in what goes on in other forums, nor do I have the motivation to find out.
However, I feel that grievances with another forum ought to be addressed with the Mods and members of that respective forum.
As such, I don't know what's happening, nor would I understand the context of the situation, but on top of that, I simply do not care to investigate. As far as I'm concerned, everyone has a choice to make - they decide who they want to take advice from. If they choose to listen to unprofessional advice, it's to their own detriment. The onus is always up to the individual to check the qualifications and background of the people dishing out the advice. The forums is hardly a place to seek 'serious' advice. Afterall, what can you really validate over the forums?
On top of that, most forums in here exist to discuss issues of interest to the forumites in here. Most of us take posts in here with a pinch of salt - it's for the sake of casual discussion.
I do not wish Club 30 to be used as a springboard for some flaming war. Please bear this in mind. -
u shldnt reallie take stuff dat r here too seriously (esp medical qns n ans, where lives r concerned).....even those professional medical webby dat provide qns n ans service dey will advice u go see doc de lorh .....
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aiyah fymk, just PM thinkdifferent can liao lor. No need to get so stressed up.
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Enough is enough
FYMK, you have gone from pointing out the danger of quacks online to blatently doubting, near scorning, the credibility of the moderators in this forum, some of whom are medical professionals
Are moderators in Aunt Agony professional councellors?
Are moderators in SAF forum all signed on officers?
Are moderators in the Maple forum all creators of the game? -
when you guys are through ranting and venting, i'll close this
just remember.. never underestimate the depths of stupidity.. and be responsible for what you say... and it is the responsibility of those who do not agree with others to dispute and argue and debate and whatever...
being locked out and being censored.. that's just a shade of fascism..
and with things like health matters, let there be a total, no-holds-barred debate.. it is that important...
heck.. in CC, there was a healthy debate about slimming pills.. there were morons who think that ephidrine can be used for slimming because "the ban was lifted" without thinking about the side effects (liver failure and death)...
and advocates for detoxification just got hammered by facts..
so, as with all club 30 things, few things will be censored.. in fact, unless they are not legal, they will not be censored..
however, nonsensical things will be closed...
you want to fight, let it happen in the place it started...
and the mods of the other place, this is just friendly advise, if you cannot handle a no-holds-barred discussion with logic and facts, it would be best to rethink about what you are trying to say.. because as they say, real gold is never fearful of fire...
good luck all... and don't get angry.. don't resort to censorship or locking out... get RIGHT..
this thread will be left alone and if no one says anymore, i'll consider the matter closed and so will this thread... -
Rhonda,
May I suggest you lock this thread or something. A similar discussion on this issue is already ongoing in the forum concerned:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=175997
And also, to fymk: If you have any grievances with the health forum's moderators, please air them out in that forum. Washing the dirty laundry in another forum doesn't help your cause at all. If anything, it only serves to undermine your own credibility and put yourself in an even worse light. -
I have no more say in this thing. To think that a disclaimer could cause so many problems. The only regret - we have lost 2 people who sincerely want to help.
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Dear Rhonda,
I am shocked, dismayed and alarm to here that these forums are not serious. Ever since i have joined these forums i have taken all the advice from looking after pets, movies, relationships and even which sting ray dish would go well with Elindras rays. Naturally i am overly suspicious as to her replacement of the rays every week.
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Kan_i, I would prefer to say that it is meant for discussions rather than not serious.
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Originally posted by Kan_i:Dear Rhonda,
I am shocked, dismayed and alarm to here that these forums are not serious. Ever since i have joined these forums i have taken all the advice from looking after pets, movies, relationships and even which sting ray dish would go well with Elindras rays. Naturally i am overly suspicious as to her replacement of the rays every week. -
OK, this thread shall be closed. Grievances regarding a particular forum should be brought to the attention of the Mods in that respective forum and in this case, I think the issue is already being discussed there and elsewhere.
So, alrighty... case closed.