To have, or not to have kids? What's your take?
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getting married neither did any rules say one must have kids nor one must not have kids. neither did it say you must not have the idea of not having kids nor have the idea of having kids.
choice
in life there are choices, you make your own choices and live it up. -
If you know enough married people, you might realise that :Originally posted by jayellefull:kids are the "product" of a relationship. Its like a special something made by and shared between you and your SO. it also represents another commitment, perhaps a higher level of love between you and your SO
- some couples have kids as a desperate measure because their relationship is failing and they have this delusion that having kids would solve their marital problems and 'bring them closer';
- other couples get along fine but start arguing AFTER the kids come along because they cannot agree on parental issues and they have totally different ideas on how to bring up the children; and
- couples without kids can actually end up much much closer to each other than those who have children, simply because their focus is always on each other, no other distractions, and so the relationship that develops may become very intense. Perfect example - the deep relationship between the recently-deceased minister (alamak!! suddenly forgot his name! Starts with a 'B'...
) and his wife.
Therefore, it is a highly romanticised notion that having children represents "a higher level of love between you and your SO". Don't forget, there are still other couples for whom having children just meant one of those, "Oops! Honey, I forgot the condoms!" situation!
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Yeah, true. We all have our choices to make.Originally posted by paperflower:getting married neither did any rules say one must have kids nor one must not have kids. neither did it say you must not have the idea of not having kids nor have the idea of having kids.
choice
in life there are choices, you make your own choices and live it up.
Y'know, all said, there are people who have children and become such lousy parents, or give their children such lousy examples, that you wish they had been sterilised! -
Precisely!Originally posted by breytonhartge:Basically, I agree with you Rhon, kids are a liability. Unless you really want them, then have them. You do not have to be married to have kids
The idea of having kids is an antiquated one.
Case-in-point - during a Sociology Lecture, the lecturer asked, "Who thinks that a married couple, without children, IS a complete family unit?"
And oh my gosh, yours truly was one of three, I think, in the entire lecture group of what... 200+ students, who put up her hand!
The rest all think that without children, the married couple aren't 'family'!
The lecturer was stunned as she revealed, "Technically, the minute you're married, you're a family unit already, with or without children!" -
Lots of issues I wanted to raise with your post, but nevermind, a bit tired, so I'll just focus on this one.Originally posted by paperflower:old age - lonely, envy others, lonely with no children (flesh & blood) for those happy moments as family as u miss with your parents when you were young and when they were alive.
There are plenty of old folks in public hospitals and nursing homes who have been more or less abandoned by their adult children. They lie in bed, pining for their children and sometimes, the children do turn up on the rare occasion, sometimes, never and it seems as if they have all disowned their parents and no longer want to have anything more to do with them.
Of course, there are those who are filial and take care of their elderly parents well. Those are the filial ones.
My point is, don't assume that having children is an automatic 'insurance' for a good life in your old age. It is no longer so. The cost of healthcare, and the basic cost of living, coupled with the steadily decreasing disposable income and definitely, the smaller buying power of our dollar, would mean that it WILL be a burden to take care of your own family, your house loans, car loans, etc etc AND your elderly parents' healthcare costs, bills, etc.
I think when we have children, have the foresight to plan for your own retirement as well and not plan to just lean on them to provide for everything because it shall be a tremendous burden for them to bear and not very fair on them as well. This is no longer the era where one sole breadwinner can support his elderly parents and his own household - I think up to the '80's, that was still possible but now, it'll just turn people into human beasts of burden.
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Originally posted by Rhonda:Yeah, true. We all have our choices to make.
Y'know, all said, there are people who have children and become such lousy parents, or give their children such lousy examples, that you wish they had been sterilised!
yeah agree......there are parents showing bad lousy examples to their children
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yes yes agreeOriginally posted by Rhonda:Lots of issues I wanted to raise with your post, but nevermind, a bit tired, so I'll just focus on this one.
There are plenty of old folks in public hospitals and nursing homes who have been more or less abandoned by their adult children. They lie in bed, pining for their children and sometimes, the children do turn up on the rare occasion, sometimes, never and it seems as if they have all disowned their parents and no longer want to have anything more to do with them.
Of course, there are those who are filial and take care of their elderly parents well. Those are the filial ones.
My point is, don't assume that having children is an automatic 'insurance' for a good life in your old age. It is no longer so. The cost of healthcare, and the basic cost of living, coupled with the steadily decreasing disposable income and definitely, the smaller buying power of our dollar, would mean that it WILL be a burden to take care of your own family, your house loans, car loans, etc etc AND your elderly parents' healthcare costs, bills, etc.
I think when we have children, have the foresight to plan for your own retirement as well and not plan to just lean on them to provide for everything because it shall be a tremendous burden for them to bear and not very fair on them as well. This is no longer the era where one sole breadwinner can support his elderly parents and his own household - I think up to the '80's, that was still possible but now, it'll just turn people into human beasts of burden.
that kinda problems arised from having so called "bad kids" they had.
well in my case of that "loneliness" is without kids ... that is.
oh yeah forgot to add enjoying the company is not for the company of money, its the simple joy of being around with family nothing else matters.
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or is it my sentence not clear enough pertaining directly to the topic?
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I understand why some people don't want kids but.. I do! Hee.. i like kids. They make me laugh, they make me happy. Mind you, I don't particularly like BABIES, so I don't like kids simply because they get to be babies.
I like kids when they are about 3-5 (abt the mental age of my kids now), filled with wonder at the world. And I know when I have mine, I can look at the world through their eyes, and even though I know the world is imperfect, the flawed beauty is something that makes us treasure it a bit more.
I like kids when they are about 6 - 9 struggling with questioning a world they realise is not perfect, still filled with wonder, curiosity, testing their limits
I like them when they become teenagers, trying to find their way, frustrated and angsty, discovering so much more about themselves, each other, dreams, love, anger, society. Discovering and building their own value systems as they go through a lot of pressure, and cynicism.
Dunno leh. I like kids. Being with kids make me feel hope. Having kids of my own will give me hope. As for money, well, I have simple tastes, it really wouldnt affect my lifestyle all that much
As for societal's pressures on my kids, well I think as long as I don't succumb to it, I think my kids won't. I know I wish to build for them a sanctuary where they can return to, when they foray out into the wild and discover for themselves that.. the world, like the jungle, is fraught with dangers but the sights they might see there, so worth it. -
I take it everyone here, married or not, doesn't have kids?
I can understand your arguments since I was once married without kids. Yes it's true, life before and after kids is very different. There have been times when I think about the "what if I didn't have kids..." but when I look at my kids, this huge wave of love just washes over me.
As newly weds, hubby and I had such a wonderful time assuming our new roles. We had such a blast and life was wonderful. The day I found out I was pregnant, I was so sad. Sad that life as I knew it was going to change. But you know what? I'm glad it did. Even though being a parent is tough, I love my kids.
I guess it's only normal to see things as cut and dry about having kids, bringing them up, etc but when you actually see your child's face for the first time, touch/hold/love him/her, I guarantee you'll experience the entire gamut of emotions. JMHO. -
I don't think I have... at least, I don't remember having any!Originally posted by jetta:I take it everyone here, married or not, doesn't have kids? 
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Better go check your little black book and call every number.Originally posted by Rhonda:I don't think I have... at least, I don't remember having any! -
Originally posted by jetta:Better go check your little black book and call every number.
Bo lah! Bo lah!! Otherwise, cannot be so carefree liao lor! -
Wah, you checked all 10 volumes so quickly?Originally posted by Rhonda:
Bo lah! Bo lah!! Otherwise, cannot be so carefree liao lor! -
Nope!Originally posted by jetta:Wah, you checked all 10 volumes so quickly? Because, it's like this, even if there are, I wouldn't wanna know... so I'd rather not check in the first place!
I still wanna be carefree!! -
Can relate. *memories of my single days playing in my mind now*Originally posted by Rhonda:I still wanna be carefree!! -
So, jetta, now that you have children, can you tell us, if you were to go back in time to the point where you just got married, will you still choose to have children?Originally posted by jetta:Can relate. *memories of my single days playing in my mind now*
Makes for interesting discussion although I guess all moms would say "Yes!" to that because they cannot imagine life without their bao bei's! -
No. Was thoroughly enjoying married life. Go anywhere, do anything at any time, carefree, just enjoying each other's company and then someOriginally posted by Rhonda:So, jetta, now that you have children, can you tell us, if you were to go back in time to the point where you just got married, will you still choose to have children?
Makes for interesting discussion although I guess all moms would say "Yes!" to that because they cannot imagine life without their bao bei's! ... -
Originally posted by jetta:No. Was thoroughly enjoying married life. Go anywhere, do anything at any time, carefree, just enjoying each other's company and then some ...
The very suggestive "and then some..." drove my imagination wild!
Well, that's what I desire - to have a partner to walk through life's journey with, hand-in-hand. -
I think there are very few good reasons to have children . A couple of valid ones to me are - because you love children and you are ready for them. When you've got the capacity to love them and the capacity to bring them up right, that's when you're ready. Any other reason doesn't really hold water IMO.
Personally I've never liked kids and they've never been a To Do item in my life. On a deeper level I'm deathly scared of having kids and its implications - having to take on massive responsibility for yourself and dependents, a massive change in lifestyle, etc ..... it's just mind boggling. I don't wanna give up the right to be selfish and a child yet.
But I have reconciled that I'll have children, but strictly, in my own time. I guess I'll do ok as a mom. I view it as a long-term project , like work I need to sit back and put some impersonal distance between me and motherhood, so that I won't be crippled by fear and doubt. -
yes its deluded to think if having children would improve a not so good marriage, after the problem pops up. it helps for some and doean't help for others. nothing is predictable.Originally posted by Rhonda:If you know enough married people, you might realise that :
- some couples have kids as a desperate measure because their relationship is failing and they have this delusion that having kids would solve their marital problems and 'bring them closer';
- other couples get along fine but start arguing AFTER the kids come along because they cannot agree on parental issues and they have totally different ideas on how to bring up the children; and
- couples without kids can actually end up much much closer to each other than those who have children, simply because their focus is always on each other, no other distractions, and so the relationship that develops may become very intense. Perfect example - the deep relationship between the recently-deceased minister (alamak!! suddenly forgot his name! Starts with a 'B'... ) and his wife.
Therefore, it is a highly romanticised notion that having children represents "a higher level of love between you and your SO". Don't forget, there are still other couples for whom having children just meant one of those, "Oops! Honey, I forgot the condoms!" situation!
yes agree couples get along well then after having kids arguments arise due to different methods of bringing up kids. or vice versa..... some work out very well together some don't. give and take, tolerance, giving chances to try out.... ain't easy but can be done.
yes of cos i have some friends without children, their marriage are very stable and very close to each other. i also have friends without kids, marriage and relationship falling apart.
its unpredictable, nothing is 100% safe. to have kids or not to have, let nature takes it own course. if have its another life as precious as your own to love and cherish. -
You put it so nicely choco. That's how I'm feeling right now.Originally posted by choco B:I think there are very few good reasons to have children . A couple of valid ones to me are - because you love children and you are ready for them. When you've got the capacity to love them and the capacity to bring them up right, that's when you're ready. Any other reason doesn't really hold water IMO.
Personally I've never liked kids and they've never been a To Do item in my life. On a deeper level I'm deathly scared of having kids and its implications - having to take on massive responsibility for yourself and dependents, a massive change in lifestyle, etc ..... it's just mind boggling. I don't wanna give up the right to be selfish and a child yet.
But I have reconciled that I'll have children, but strictly, in my own time. I guess I'll do ok as a mom. I view it as a long-term project , like work I need to sit back and put some impersonal distance between me and motherhood, so that I won't be crippled by fear and doubt. -
RUBBISH!!. This is just another fallacy from the moderator who always discourage people getting married and having children.Originally posted by Rhonda:If you know enough married people, you might realise that :
- some couples have kids as a desperate measure because their relationship is failing and they have this delusion that having kids would solve their marital problems and 'bring them closer';
- other couples get along fine but start arguing AFTER the kids come along because they cannot agree on parental issues and they have totally different ideas on how to bring up the children; and
- couples without kids can actually end up much much closer to each other than those who have children, simply because their focus is always on each other, no other distractions, and so the relationship that develops may become very intense. Perfect example - the deep relationship between the recently-deceased minister (alamak!! suddenly forgot his name! Starts with a 'B'... ) and his wife.
Therefore, it is a highly romanticised notion that having children represents "a higher level of love between you and your SO". Don't forget, there are still other couples for whom having children just meant one of those, "Oops! Honey, I forgot the condoms!" situation! -
or maybe look from another angle....
be kind to the children...if mentally not prepared to raise them, best not to give birth to them then...cos they are only innocent ones who grows up accordingly to wat's given onto them....
children are more than pets and hobbies....the reward is now and not future....u take care of them they give you the joy....u see them grow (there are many things u learn in the process if you do put your heart to feel, heard and observe), u put your theory to work and see if it works....(if theory don't work also nbmind lah....which biz venture guarantees profit one )
wat the future is going to be, no one knows.....nothing is predictable mah....there are filial ones, there are unfilial ones around.....
ok only a involved parent can see these : children can enrich your life, make you see the beauty of the world you hv not seen before, give you enormous strength to life thru setback etc etc...
on the other hand, they can also be someone u find tearing your life, a timebomb to your life or even a disaster, if you neber was prepared and nber want to be prepared.......really depends on individual
so i think its good that couples think properly if they are prepared for them and confident enugh to take the challenge....
of course most imptly couples' relationship in the first place must be stable....its like if the foundation of the high rise building is not good, how to hv the building etc....sure to fail mah.... -
I noticed all your discussions about family and marriage are always so negative and pestimistic. I wonder why.Originally posted by Rhonda:Lots of issues I wanted to raise with your post, but nevermind, a bit tired, so I'll just focus on this one.
There are plenty of old folks in public hospitals and nursing homes who have been more or less abandoned by their adult children. They lie in bed, pining for their children and sometimes, the children do turn up on the rare occasion, sometimes, never and it seems as if they have all disowned their parents and no longer want to have anything more to do with them.
Of course, there are those who are filial and take care of their elderly parents well. Those are the filial ones.
My point is, don't assume that having children is an automatic 'insurance' for a good life in your old age. It is no longer so. The cost of healthcare, and the basic cost of living, coupled with the steadily decreasing disposable income and definitely, the smaller buying power of our dollar, would mean that it WILL be a burden to take care of your own family, your house loans, car loans, etc etc AND your elderly parents' healthcare costs, bills, etc.
I think when we have children, have the foresight to plan for your own retirement as well and not plan to just lean on them to provide for everything because it shall be a tremendous burden for them to bear and not very fair on them as well. This is no longer the era where one sole breadwinner can support his elderly parents and his own household - I think up to the '80's, that was still possible but now, it'll just turn people into human beasts of burden.