Should the Good Samaritans be sued?
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This is a thread that originated from a discussion we were having over in our Jive Pad. (Yup, I'm shamelessly plugging our Jive Pad!
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So, picture this scenario... an accident just occured, and a Good Samaritan rushed over to help. The driver appeared to be stuck behind the wheel and in great pain, and in his bid to help the driver, the Good Samaritan tried to assist by trying to pull the driver out of his seat and whilst doing so, aggravated the spinal injury already suffered by the driver, unbeknownst to both.
In the hospital, the driver's family, angered by the fact that the Samaritan's bid to pull the driver to safety aggravated the spinal injuries, decide to sue the Samaritan.
What do you think of this ethical situation?
Or, how about this... a person trained in administering CPR rushed up to administer CPR on someone who suddenly collapsed whilst shopping in a mall. In so doing, he saved the person, but broke two to three ribs in the process.
The family decides to hold the person liable for the broken ribs.
Ethical issues are always tough to debate, but let's do so here. Share your thoughts, but let's agree to disagree.
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like at work, no good deed goes unpunished...
but seriously, remember Mother Teresa's Anyway...
if you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives
be kind anyway -
Actually this is interesting cos when I got my First Aid cert, this is what I asked my trainer. I also asked the civil defence guy who came to teach us basic first aid.
What they both shared was that as long as we show that we tried to do according to what we have learnt, then a broken rib is preferable to loss of life. I also asked, what if the broken rib leads to complications which leads to injuries such as punctured lung? I also asked, what if I forgot what I learnt and therefore misapplied it. But both parties said, even if we are scared and don't do a deep enough compression, it is still better than no compression.
But having said these, I think if someone collapses in front of you and heartbeat stops AND there is no one else available to assist. I really don't think most people will think about being sued or not but will do all that is possible to help the casualty. I also think that if the person CHECKED that there is indeed no heartbeat and no breathing - the person they are saving is technically dead! How can they kill someone who is dead liao?
Lastly.. Hmm.. recently a friend's father had a cardiac arrest at home. No one around knew CPR. They called the ambulance but by the time it came, he was already dead. It would be a pity if the fear of being sued prevent people from learning how to do CPR. I'm not sure if faced with this situation I will have the mind power to do it... but... the feeling of being totally helpless in the face of a loved one's agony... is not something I hope to face. -
When thinking about this subject, the saying "no good deed goes unpunished" comes to mind.
That being said, its really a grey area. One can argue that in the case of the first person, he should be sued for rashly trying to render first aid despite being untrained. However, you can also say that he had no malicious intent and was only trying to help out of the goodness of his heart! How?!
The second person, trained in first aid/cpr, saved the victim's life but broke ribs in the process. His ungrateful family decided to sue their benefactor. The case should be dismissed outright with costs borne by the plantiffs and a stiff reprimand delivered by the judge.
Personally, I decided not to renew my first aid/cpr license so that I will never be placed in a dilemma. Since my license is not current, it is in fact illegal for me to render any aid. So I just stick to calling the emergency services in such cases. Except , of course if the victim is my own family member. -
BTW, an american friend of mine was sued by a mother and daughter he rescued from some armed robbers. They claimed to have suffered trauma from witnessing the extreme violence he displayed in the process towards the 2 robbers. The judge threw the case out thankfully.
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Thinking that's not going to help you with any lawsuits that might come your way!Originally posted by the Bear:like at work, no good deed goes unpunished...
but seriously, remember Mother Teresa's Anyway...
if you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives
be kind anyway
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Originally posted by av98m:BTW, an american friend of mine was sued by a mother and daughter he rescued from some armed robbers. They claimed to have suffered trauma from witnessing the extreme violence he displayed in the process towards the 2 robbers. The judge threw the case out thankfully.
The two ungrateful people sued your friend for helping them?!!
They were trying to profit from him, damnit!
What is this world coming to? It's ridiculous that people who are trying to help or have already helped someone be made to suffer somehow for their good deed! -
in the end .... the only chaps laughing all the way either way, are the lawyers, no ? ....
every notice how lawyers are involved in almost every single human tragedy ? .... be it in life or in death ? .... -
Yeah, he commented that he should have asked them to pay for the rounds fired from his gun (he has a concealed carry license, and he shot the robbers, not fatally though) The robbers also had firearms.Originally posted by Rhonda:
The two ungrateful people sued your friend for helping them?!!
They were trying to profit from him, damnit!
What is this world coming to? It's ridiculous that people who are trying to help or have already helped someone be made to suffer somehow for their good deed! -
Thats why some of them are called ambulance chasers.Originally posted by Fatum:in the end .... the only chaps laughing all the way either way, are the lawyers, no ? ....
every notice how lawyers are involved in almost every single human tragedy ? .... be it in life or in death ? .... -
I dont think you need a first aid cert to administer first aid wor...
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he should also sue them for psychological truama of getting a lawsuitOriginally posted by av98m:Yeah, he commented that he should have asked them to pay for the rounds fired from his gun (he has a concealed carry license, and he shot the robbers, not fatally though) The robbers also had firearms. 
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which goes to show that i'm not going to care about the lawsuit...
i am answerable to my conscience...
and if i am sued, so be it.. and you KNOW i will severely and utterly embarass the idiots in the court of law so bad that ultimately, they may choose suicide as a form of escape...
seriously... i have the reputation of being able to verbally browbeat a hardened man to tears at where i used to work.. and if those idiots attempt to sue me, they don't know what kinds of hell they have gotten themselves into...
all those considerations and thoughts of lawsuits are secondary where a life is question...
besides, what goes around, comes around... just ask EarlOriginally posted by Rhonda:Thinking that's not going to help you with any lawsuits that might come your way! -
Well, not for things like giving someone a band-aid but cpr is more serious.Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:I dont think you need a first aid cert to administer first aid wor... -
How come they don't sue the robbers for the trauma they have to suffer insteadOriginally posted by av98m:BTW, an american friend of mine was sued by a mother and daughter he rescued from some armed robbers. They claimed to have suffered trauma from witnessing the extreme violence he displayed in the process towards the 2 robbers. The judge threw the case out thankfully. -
Let me tell you a real incident, but I will exercise 'creative judgement' and change details to protect the identities of people involved.
When I was still a Nursing Student doing an attachment in a local hospital, my tutor and I was walking towards an MRT station when we saw an elderly man who suddenly collapsed and lay on the floor, looking quite dazed and weak.
I told my tutor, "Oh no! Let's go over and help that man!"
My tutor pulled me back saying, "No, let's just move on, see, there are uniformed nurses who are going to help the man already! Let's not invite trouble and get ourselves involved!" (It was the end of a working shift so that's why there were nurses around the MRT Station heading back home).
I was extremely stunned to hear her say that! Being my tutor, I thought she should be a good example instead of holding me back!
It was only much later that I sorta understood her reticence. She was probably afraid of any unpleasant repurcussions.
It's sad that the fear of any legal repurcussion would deter people from helping, but the sad truth is, people ARE becoming more litigatious these days, and unreasonably so too!
Imagine, doctor or not, nurse or otherwise, First Aid trained or not, we all have our off days when we're tired or exhausted after a day's work and am heading home in a 'switched off' mode. When suddenly confronted with a collapsed man in such a situation, we may rush forward to help but in our quick response, we may inadvertently not do something right, or forget a few steps, etc. Being CPR certified does not guarantee that you would not have any off days or be caught off-guard or in your haste, miss a step or two.
Of course, trained personnel have to be competent and there ought to be no excuses about it. But things somehow don't always happen as we wish, and the scenarios might not always have perfect endings.
Bottom line is, whether an injury is incurred because of someone trying to help or not, the person who stepped forward to provide aid only had the best intention in mind and definitely did not have the intention of harming the person. It was a benevolent act stemming from a good heart. That should not be punished.
The counter effect that suing Good Samaritans would bring, is a hesitant attitude in other Good Samaritans. Definitely, seeing a fellow Good Samaritan be sued and get into trouble for trying to help would deter fellow Good Samaritans from stepping up to help someone without stopping to think twice, thrice, and more, before doing so or worse, before finally thinking that it's better to trash the thought, and just walk away.
If we allow Good Samaritans to suffer, we are simply breeding a "help not" attitude in everyone else. -
Before i went for my cert, the first time i learnt cpr is through a SCDF course. You dont get a first aid cert after that but the instructor encouraged us to do if we are confident OR if really desperate.Originally posted by av98m:Well, not for things like giving someone a band-aid but cpr is more serious.
Would you seriously withhold your aid if someone you dont know collapse in front of you and there is no one else around to help?
An ambulance would only come fastest about 8 minutes. By that time without CPR, the person would be in serious danger of brain damage liao. -
Hanor! Hanor!!Originally posted by elindra:How come they don't sue the robbers for the trauma they have to suffer instead
Shen2 Jing1 Bing4!! Tamade bully hao3 ren2!! -
it still brings us back to lawyers ultimately doesn't it ? ...Originally posted by Rhonda:Let me tell you a real incident, but I will exercise 'creative judgement' and change details to protect the identities of people involved.
When I was still a Nursing Student doing an attachment in a local hospital, my tutor and I was walking towards an MRT station when we saw an elderly man who suddenly collapsed and lay on the floor, looking quite dazed and weak.
I told my tutor, "Oh no! Let's go over and help that man!"
My tutor pulled me back saying, "No, let's just move on, see, there are uniformed nurses who are going to help the man already! Let's not invite trouble and get ourselves involved!" (It was the end of a working shift so that's why there were nurses around the MRT Station heading back home).
I was extremely stunned to hear her say that! Being my tutor, I thought she should be a good example instead of holding me back!
It was only much later that I sorta understood her reticence. She was probably afraid of any unpleasant repurcussions.
It's sad that the fear of any legal repurcussion would deter people from helping, but the sad truth is, people ARE becoming more litigatious these days, and unreasonably so too!
Imagine, doctor or not, nurse or otherwise, First Aid trained or not, we all have our off days when we're tired or exhausted after a day's work and am heading home in a 'switched off' mode. When suddenly confronted with a collapsed man in such a situation, we may rush forward to help but in our quick response, we may inadvertently not do something right, or forget a few steps, etc. Being CPR certified does not guarantee that you would not have any off days or be caught off-guard or in your haste, miss a step or two.
Of course, trained personnel have to be competent and there ought to be no excuses about it. But things somehow don't always happen as we wish, and the scenarios might not always have perfect endings.
Bottom line is, whether an injury is incurred because of someone trying to help or not, the person who stepped forward to provide aid only had the best intention in mind and definitely did not have the intention of harming the person. It was a benevolent act stemming from a good heart. That should not be punished.
The counter effect that suing Good Samaritans would bring, is a hesitant attitude in other Good Samaritans. Definitely, seeing a fellow Good Samaritan be sued and get into trouble for trying to help would deter fellow Good Samaritans from stepping up to help someone without stopping to think twice, thrice, and more, before doing so or worse, before finally thinking that it's better to trash the thought, and just walk away.
If we allow Good Samaritans to suffer, we are simply breeding a "help not" attitude in everyone else.
societies are becoming more litigious because the lawyers are willing to bring such frivolous cases to court, and some judges, who are also of the same profession anyways, are moronic enough to "see the merits" of some of them .... I wonder if the public realise that such trials are paid by the taxpayers too ...
I'm sorry, I just have this thing against certain closed, self-regulating professions -
Well, I'm not surprised that people are afriad to help these days with those ridiculas cases we hear on the news in our own home ground
Eg. The guy & stonefish vs Sentosa
Only good thing is that our judges are the no nonsense kind, unlike the things you can get away with in the USA where a burgler can sue the house owner and win! -
You don't, but from a legal point of view, not being certified can be a point of contention with the family members of the victim, should they decide to sue you.Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:I dont think you need a first aid cert to administer first aid wor... -
Earl? Mr Earl Grey? Last time we met, he was hot and smelled oh so nice!Originally posted by the Bear:which goes to show that i'm not going to care about the lawsuit...
i am answerable to my conscience...
and if i am sued, so be it.. and you KNOW i will severely and utterly embarass the idiots in the court of law so bad that ultimately, they may choose suicide as a form of escape...
seriously... i have the reputation of being able to verbally browbeat a hardened man to tears at where i used to work.. and if those idiots attempt to sue me, they don't know what kinds of hell they have gotten themselves into...
all those considerations and thoughts of lawsuits are secondary where a life is question...
besides, what goes around, comes around... just ask Earl
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I'm not so sure about the law in Singapore quite frankly. My certification was through a US based agency, and needs to be renewed on a yearly basis to ensure proficiency. They give you a certification card to keep in your wallet.Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:Before i went for my cert, the first time i learnt cpr is through a SCDF course. You dont get a first aid cert after that but the instructor encouraged us to do if we are confident OR if really desperate.
Would you seriously withhold your aid if someone you dont know collapse in front of you and there is no one else around to help?
An ambulance would only come fastest about 8 minutes. By that time without CPR, the person would be in serious danger of brain damage liao.
A stranger did collapse in front of me once and everyone else was just gawking. I called for an ambulance but did not touch him. The ambulance took about 15 minutes, by then he had regained consciousness but was not coherent. -
Oh yeah! Like that infamous case in the US where a burglar broke into this family's home in the middle of the night, and because it was dark, he tripped over something, fell and injured himself so badly he landed in hospital, and then sued the family for causing his injuries, and, get this - he won!!Originally posted by elindra:Well, I'm not surprised that people are afriad to help these days with those ridiculas cases we hear on the news in our own home ground
Eg. The guy & stonefish vs Sentosa
Only good thing is that our judges are the no nonsense kind, unlike the things you can get away with in the USA where a burgler can sue the house owner and win!
I was like, What THE... !!! -
ya since u can get sued whether u are certified or not...Originally posted by Rhonda:You don't, but from a legal point of view, not being certified can be a point of contention with the family members of the victim, should they decide to sue you.
doesnt make a difference right? It's really up to whether you want to do it or not...