The Voices In the Mind... amongst other things.
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i've only got these words in my mind now
'i give up'
i need to get away -
hey.. endure...
you'll be fine... take it as a test of your character
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Originally posted by the Bear:click => ADHD Fraud
in the cult leader, we have, in a nutshell, why some would choose to feign mental disorder...
there will be many who will jump up and protect them..
the need for the conman to be coddled is fulfilled by the people who are fooled by them...
You, of all people, ought to know me well enough by now to know that I ain't no bleedin' heart, so don't lump me together with them!
I used to hold the same opinions as you, as a matter of fact, but it was my work exposure to psychologically / mentally abnormal people in the IMH that changed my entire outlook. Nothing beats working with entire wards of these people to make you understand fully that whilst there are people who will make use of those diagnosis to excuse themselves from taking responsibility for their actions, it does not mean that there aren't those who are genuinely afflicted.
And just because you've never been with those who are genuinely afflicted does not mean that there is no such diagnosis. Wouldn't that be equivalent to sticking your head in the sand? "I don't see so I'm not convinced, therefore it doesn't exist?" -
Hang in there... I thought that after your recent trip to Thailand, you'd come back recharged and refreshed but so sorry to hear you've got the blues.Originally posted by kopiosatu:i've only got these words in my mind now
'i give up'
i need to get away
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i get more depressed when i come back from overseas.Originally posted by Rhonda:Hang in there... I thought that after your recent trip to Thailand, you'd come back recharged and refreshed but so sorry to hear you've got the blues.
i never miss home.
when i was on the ship for 24 days, i didn't miss singapore at all. i enjoyed the sunrise and sunset, enjoyed the peace and quiet at the ship's deck.
i think i'm one of those who can get away from home and never come back. -
sometimes forcing someone into therapy could also make things worse.Originally posted by the Bear:we reach out.. but when he doesn't want to grab hold of that hand we hold out and keep holding out, he has chosen death...
there are some people we cannot save, no matter what..
and for a cause as stupid as his, we can hold out our hand until hell freezes over.. and ultimately, we will hold out our hand... if he doesn't want to grab on to that helping hand, we can't do anything about it..
you want to keep him in a straitjacket and imprison him in a padded cell?
if he didn't top himself this time, he'll top himself over another way...
do not mistake our willingness to help, with forcing the "help" on them...
if they choose death, no matter what we try and help, there can be nothing we can do..
take someone who has an eating disorder. lets make it anorexia. yes, EDs are mental illnesses! anyways, people who are anorexic already think that they are fat. no matter how skinny they actually are, they DO see themselves as FAT LOSERS. so here they are starving themselves trying to lose weight. and here comes someone who forces them into therapy so that they can gain weight. they already think they are morbidly obese. and by making them eat, they are just going to want to lose again, because we are making them fatter than ever. so what a lot of these people do is that in the hospital, they will eat. just to that they can hit a certain weight to get OUT. and when they are out, they are fatter than ever. so then they will take even more drastic measures to get rid of the weight they have gained. plus more. and this time, they will have learnt to tricks and stuff to keep others from interfering.
so in this case, it would be best if they are only sent for therapy when they ask for it. however, there are times of course, where the person has to be forced into therapy. for cases like those, we can only hope for the best. that hospitalization wont trigger something worse... -
I visited the site. And all I got from it was that Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD is ONE MD who has stepped up to claim that "Twenty five years of research, not deserving of the term 'research.,' has failed to validate ADD/ADHD as a disease."Originally posted by the Bear:
Does this raise concern?
Yes.
Does this mean that ADHD is totally invalid?
Not yet.
I want to hear from more MD's. I want more MD's to step up and quantify their findings with solid statistics and research facts.
A diagnosis cannot be created or refuted by ONE MD alone.
I'm sure you've heard of MD's who've lent their reputations to various different diets before, right? Does that make those diets 'good'? Nope. But it certainly fooled lots of people into thinking that just because an MD endorsed it, it must be 'good'.
Until and unless I see further evidence in medical journals on this issue, I will not let just ONE MD discredit an entire diagnosis. Too bad I don't have access to OVID online because that'll allow me to cross-search several medical, psychological and nursing journals at one go.
He is brave to step up and be a whistleblower... now, let's see if what he says can be substantiated or not. Let's not jump the gun yet.
I would have thought that you'd see this in a more multi-dimensional perspective, Bear. -
well, ADHD doesn't exist...
just like, i would wager, a whole lot of things out there...
i've seen "ADHD" and "ADD" children... anyway, go watch Supernanny... no pills necessary
and most of all, they are just children who are naughty, have too much energy and there is no need to drug them...
what you seem to be advocating is to treat everyone who walks in as a "mental patient" and mollycoddle them with your direction..
my direction is to FIND those who are really in need, hold out our hand and hope they take that hand...
the frauds can all go take a long walk off a short pier...
the trick is to find the frauds.... which means to not treat everyone who walks in as being mentally disturbed..
and just like that JC kid, sometimes, we can't help them.. we can try but they choose death... sometimes, there is no reason why people kill themselves... looking at things like BDD? does it really help? would BDD be proven to be a pile of hogwash?
it doesn't matter..
that boy which is the bone of your contention, he chose death.. what could we do? put him in a straitjacket? we can't help those who reject our help..
and what more.. the more charlatans we entertain, the fewer real cases we can help...
sometimes, i sound hard, i sound harsh... but ultimately, which way becomes more effective?
"anyway" works in different ways -
oh.. this thing i came up with out of thin air still exists until someone can say it doesn't exist..
good one -
HERO (by superchick)
no one sits with him,he doesn't fit in
but we feel like we do when we make fun of him
cause you want to belong,do you go along?
cause his pain is the price paid for you to belong
it's not like you hate him or want him to die
but maybe he goes home and thinks suicide
or he comes back to school with a gun at his side
and a kindness from you might have saved his life
heroes are made when you make a choice
you could be a hero - heroes do what's right
you could be a hero - you might save a life
you could be a hero - you could join the fight
for what's right, for what's right, for what's right
no one talks to her, she feels so alone
she's in too much pain to survive on her own
the hurt she can't handle overflows to a knife
she writes on her arm wants to give up her life
each day she goes on is a day that she's brave
fighting the lie that giving up is the way
each moment of courage her own life she saves
when she throws the pills out a hero is made
heroes are made when you make a choice
you could be a hero - heroes do what's right
you could be a hero - you might save a life
you could be a hero - you could join the fight
for what's right, for what's right, for what's right
no one talks to him about how he lives
he thinks that the choices he makes are just his
doesn't know he's a leader with the way he behaves
and others will follow the choices he's made
he lives on the edge, he's old enough to decide
his brother who wants to be him is just nine
he can do what he wants because it's his right
the choices he makes change a nine-year-old's life
heroes are made when you make a choice
you could be a hero - heroes do what's right
you could be a hero - you might save a life
you could be a hero - you could join the fight
for what's right, for what's right, for what's right
(rap)
little mikey d was the one in class
who every day got brutally harassed
this went on for years until he decided
that never again would he shed another tear
so he walked through the door
grabbed a .44 out of his father's dresser drawer
and said i can't take life no more
and like that a life could be lost
but this ain't even about that
all of us just sat back
and watched it happen
thinking it's not my responsibility
to solve a problem that isn't about me
this is our problem
this is just one of the daily scenarios
in which we chose to close our eyes
instead of doing the right thing
if we make a choice
be the voice
to those who won't speak up for themselves
how many lives would be saved
changed, rearranged
now it's our job
to take a shot
so don't keep walking by
not wanting to intervene
cause you just wanna exist
and never be seen
so let's wake up
change the world
our time is now
you could be a hero - (our time is now) heroes do what's right
you could be a hero - (our time is now) you might save a life
you could be a hero - (our time is now) you could join the fight
for what's right, for what's right, for what's right
the song above helped many people i know who were going through a bad time...especially the part in bold...
saw it on a friends blog again just now and thought of posting it here... -
And based on what do you claim that ADHD doesn't exist? Just cause of what that ONE doc says? I'm sorry but I'm not that easily convinced because if that MD is unable to provide strong evidence to back his case, I'm not about to help propagate his idea.Originally posted by the Bear:well, ADHD doesn't exist...
just like, i would wager, a whole lot of things out there...
i've seen "ADHD" and "ADD" children... anyway, go watch Supernanny... no pills necessary
and most of all, they are just children who are naughty, have too much energy and there is no need to drug them...
what you seem to be advocating is to treat everyone who walks in as a "mental patient" and mollycoddle them with your direction..
my direction is to FIND those who are really in need, hold out our hand and hope they take that hand...
the frauds can all go take a long walk off a short pier...
the trick is to find the frauds.... which means to not treat everyone who walks in as being mentally disturbed..
and just like that JC kid, sometimes, we can't help them.. we can try but they choose death... sometimes, there is no reason why people kill themselves... looking at things like BDD? does it really help? would BDD be proven to be a pile of hogwash?
it doesn't matter..
that boy which is the bone of your contention, he chose death.. what could we do? put him in a straitjacket? we can't help those who reject our help..
and what more.. the more charlatans we entertain, the fewer real cases we can help...
sometimes, i sound hard, i sound harsh... but ultimately, which way becomes more effective?
"anyway" works in different ways
And you've heard of docs who want to make a name for themselves, right? Well, a great last-ditch attempt to make everyone sit up and notice your name would be to do what he just did - refute ADHD.
That ADHD doesn't exist is a suggestion I'd love to explore, but until I read conclusive scientific evidence to back this up, it remains an interesting idea and possibility to me.
And don't tell me to go watch some Hollywood movie to know what are ADHD kids!
And since when did I suggest this : "what you seem to be advocating is to treat everyone who walks in as a "mental patient" and mollycoddle them with your direction.." Hell, I've always stood by proper diagnosis being made, not by me, nosiree, because I'm just a humble Missy, but by a professional - a Psychologist, one of them MD's who work in the IMH. Do you think they will consider "everyone who walks in" as a mental patient? I'm not about to waste my time on mollycuddling and you're truly mistaken and a real lousy judge of character if you think that I'm the mollycuddling sort!
And by saying this : "my direction is to FIND those who are really in need, hold out our hand and hope they take that hand...", well, just how do you propose to do that? You aren't trained to "find those who are really in need" so let the professionals do their job. And yet, when that JC boy was officially diagnosed by MD's as having BDD, you refute existence of the BDD as a valid psychological diagnosis.
Sorry, but you contradict yourself, IMO. You're trying to sound like you empathise with those who are truly diagnosed with mental disorders but yet, you seem unconvinced that such diagnosis truly exist.
Contrary to what most laymen think, mental disorders like Schizophrenia, does not render the person easily detectable, as in, a mildly Schizophrenic person may actually walk in our midst, and appear very normal, and nobody would be wiser to the truth! We need to change our perception of how someone with a mental / psychological disorder will appear to be like. You'd be stunned, your prim and proper Mr Executive in his Shenton Office might just be a mild Schizo! So might that passenger standing right beside you on the crowded MRT train! -
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hai.
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about people choosing suicide...
sometimes i feel that its not a choice.
i dont think people actually really really WANT to die.
its just that whatever it is that they are going through is so draining and exhausting that they just want it to stop. thats all.
but the only way to get the sh*t to stop is to...well, kill themselves.
they kill themselves to kill the thing inside them.
many people see their own mental illness as a monster of some sort living inside them...thats what they want to kill.
they dont actually want to die. -
I'm going to read it now, but first thing - that is written by the very MD who wrote that book.Originally posted by the Bear: Not exactly the voice of the other MD's I was hoping to read so does one person's opinions make a conclusive finding? Let's see... -
some..
some choose to die..
some attempt it as a way to get attention...
some choose to try to kill that mentioned monster in their heads..
some have no reasons whatsoever too...
thing is, we can try our damnest to help.. but some are beyond help..
and the people left behind pick up the pieces...Originally posted by udontknowme:about people choosing suicide...
sometimes i feel that its not a choice.
i dont think people actually really really WANT to die.
its just that whatever it is that they are going through is so draining and exhausting that they just want it to stop. thats all.
but the only way to get the sh*t to stop is to...well, kill themselves.
they kill themselves to kill the thing inside them.
many people see their own mental illness as a monster of some sort living inside them...thats what they want to kill.
they dont actually want to die. -
Hmm...when i was still posting in a teenage depression site, quite a number of the teens there said that their parents refuse to accept that their children had depression, they just think that it's the usual thing that teens feels and it's not real.
most of them well haven't been diagnosed with depression but some of them had gone to see doctors on their own and have been diagnosed with it, even so, their parents still dun wanna accept that their children has depression.
those parents who think it's normal for teens to feel depressed sometimes is right but that doesn't means that they should just dismiss it, common problems is still problems right? if it is left untouched, it could lead to more serious cases like bi polar or cutting.
those parents who refuses to accept that their kids are diagnosed with depression could be because of shame, why their kids can't be normal especially in a well, close knitted, kind of a high class community. it could because of they think mental illness is a taboo kind of thing in society.
what i want to say is, mental illness is seen different from other illness like flu or fever, ppl dun usually get mental illness, so it is like a taboo. if u usually have some mental problems it's then seen as something that u go through and it's not taken seriously. So mental problems are not really taken to be like a illness, a ill that u go to the doctor to get it fixed. so those serious cases dun really go to see a doctor out of shame or other things and those not so serious cases are not taken seriously.
i feel it's impt to look carefully at both not so serious and serious cases. not so serious cases can lead to become more serious ones, serious cases should be viewed as just like any other serious illness or diseases that u can just go to the doctor to get it fixed. -
what if the one person was right and everyone else was just like yourself, following the initial "diagnosis" ?
btw, ADHD was first "diagnosed" as children lacking in "moral conduct"Originally posted by Rhonda:I'm going to read it now, but first thing - that is written by the very MD who wrote that book. Not exactly the voice of the other MD's I was hoping to read so does one person's opinions make a conclusive finding? Let's see... -
Hmm...could my constant irritation with the crowded conditions in Singapore and constant fantacising about dealing violence to my fellow commuters on the MRT and bus be a sign of mental illness? *scratches head*
And cheer up, kopio, where there is life, there is still hope. -
maybe those that are beyond help, the only way is to let them go, maybe that's the only way to help those beyond helpOriginally posted by the Bear:some..
some choose to die..
some attempt it as a way to get attention...
some choose to try to kill that mentioned monster in their heads..
some have no reasons whatsoever too...
thing is, we can try our damnest to help.. but some are beyond help..
and the people left behind pick up the pieces... -
and now, about schizophrenia. or mental disorders like depression/schizophrenia...
i believe that it is possible for the sufferer to 'control' it.
which is why sometimes it is so hard to detect.
which is probably why sometimes people are so shocked when someone commits suicide.
ever read those comments which go something along the lines of "but he/she was such a happy child who was always so good in sport/studies, and always willing to lend a helping hand blah blah blah"...
John Nash (schizophrenic mathematician in the show Beautiful Mind) supposedly controlled his schizophrenia the first time he was at Macleans. he was let out early for good behaviour... he didnt actually recover at all. after he was let out, he just went back to being 'crazy' again.
when absolutely necessary, i believe that the sufferer has the ability to somehow control their illness. but only during that time. once they are alone, or in situations where they are not 'in danger' of being sent off to hospitals or something, they go back to their diseased self. -
OK, I've read the article.
I understand what he's trying to insinuate. Interesting allegations. Doesn't look like a conclusive decision has been reached by the medical body though. I guess it's still being debated?
Once again, I'd hesitate to write off an entire diagnosis before the official medical board does it. Afterall, we've only heard his side of the story, his representation of the facts.
It's beyond our jurisdiction to determine if he's right or not. -
what i see is an "illness" being invented from thin air and stolen by CIBA to make drugs to inflict on people..
think about itOriginally posted by Rhonda:OK, I've read the article.
I understand what he's trying to insinuate. Interesting allegations. Doesn't look like a conclusive decision has been reached by the medical body though. I guess it's still being debated?
Once again, I'd hesitate to write off an entire diagnosis before the official medical board does it. Afterall, we've only heard his side of the story, his representation of the facts.
It's beyond our jurisdiction to determine if he's right or not. -
On the subject of mental illness, a 16 year old girl(talented painist, gifted athelete and member of her school's debating team) in the States has been sentenced to 8 years in prison for killing her mother. Apparently, she was driven to it because of the constant stress her parents put her under to be the perfect overachieving daughter. I have no sympathy for the dead woman but I feel sorry for the girl. Oh, its a Chinese immigrant family. Article on today's New Paper.
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and i do agree with that.Originally posted by The man who was death:maybe those that are beyond help, the only way is to let them go, maybe that's the only way to help those beyond help
why make them suffer MORE??
many have already gone through enough sh*t including years of therapies and tons of meds.
if everything they have tried isnt helping...
then yes, i believe it is more kind to just let them go.