The Voices In the Mind... amongst other things.
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And who am I to refute a diagnosis that's still recognised by MD's and others more highly trained than I? I do not know enough to even sit at the same table as them to debate this topic! I will not presume to know more than them just because I've read one MD's article.Originally posted by the Bear:what if the one person was right and everyone else was just like yourself, following the initial "diagnosis" ?
btw, ADHD was first "diagnosed" as children lacking in "moral conduct"
I think Dr Baughman has brought up points that fellow Neurologists and Psychologists will have to answer to. I think it's still too early to write it off altogether. -
and whats the 8 years going to do to her??Originally posted by av98m:On the subject of mental illness, a 16 year old girl(talented painist, gifted athelete and member of her school's debating team) in the States has been sentenced to 8 years in prison for killing her mother. Apparently, she was driven to it because of the constant stress her parents put her under to be the perfect overachieving daughter. I have no sympathy for the dead woman but I feel sorry for the girl. Oh, its a Chinese immigrant family. Article on today's New Paper.
i only hope that she doesnt hang herself in prison.
or kill herself in prison.
or you know what...maybe she just should.
i do feel sorry for her mom too though.
i assume that the daughter is a first-generation american-chinese?
the mother would then have been brought up in china. where everyone is competitive. they have to be extremely competitive in china in order to survive...
her mother probably was still living in china in her mind. and therefore pushed her daughter so much. too much. way too much. -
and i wonder where kopiosatu is...
because he sure as hell did not sound ok at all. -
you know what the problem is?
people think just because they are MDs or whatever, they are infallable..
geniuses are usually stupid as all hell.. an expert with a hammer thinks everything can be solved with a hammer..
it didn't take a tailor to point out that the emperor was naked you know?
Originally posted by Rhonda:And who am I to refute a diagnosis that's still recognised by MD's and others more highly trained than I? I do not know enough to even sit at the same table as them to debate this topic! I will not presume to know more than them just because I've read one MD's article.
I think Dr Baughman has brought up points that fellow Neurologists and Psychologists will have to answer to. I think it's still too early to write it off altogether. -
I AGREE!!!Originally posted by the Bear:you know what the problem is?
people think just because they are MDs or whatever, they are infallable..
geniuses are usually stupid as all hell.. an expert with a hammer thinks everything can be solved with a hammer..
it didn't take a tailor to point out that the emperor was naked you know?
sadly, many professionals think they know a lot.
and the things they say end up making their patient feel worse.
here is something 'interesting'
cousellor: are you depressed?
teen: no...
cuonsellor: are you suicidal?
teen: no...
counsellor: so why are you seeing me? there are other people who need more help.
teen: like what kind of people?
counsellor: poeple who come in and are depressed and want to get better
WTF!!! its people who are depressed and dont know it/dont seek help that need the most help! -
hmm...Originally posted by Rhonda:So far, out of the cases of attempted suicide I've seen (slightly over 10), I can only think of two that are previously-diagnosed psychological cases - one of Schizophrenia where the person jumped from a low height for the third time, and survived, and the other, a case of Chronic Depression who stopped turning up for counselling sessions and stopped taking her meds.
maybe thats in singapore?
i dont know what the situation is like in singapore though...
numbers wise, i suppose its the same almost anywhere...
only a small number of people who are already seeking help end up killing themselves/attempting suicide(ok, slightly more attempt it...)
however, the cases that i know of, the people do more drastic things like overdosing on their own meds/hanging/overdosing on other types of drug/etc.
then there are the eating disordered people. one i know of is anorexic and sees it as starving herself to death because she failed all those suicide attempts.
another who is a compulsive overeater sees it as stuffing herself to death
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Originally posted by udontknowme:
I agree and I find it a realistic view.
[quote]Originally posted by BabyRS:
Be it depression, disorders of thought, speech, mood and behaviour, most people (and families) would rather live in self-denial and keep it under wraps for fear of the ostracization of a cruel society.
[b]for a lot of people with mental disorders, they keep it to themselves because they feel that no one can understand them.not even therapists/psychiatrists. and anyways, no one needs to know about their condition because they know that they will get dumb@ss comments like "just snap out of it".
I find that it's such a sad situation - when we all realize that mental health equals to a mental state of well being, and very treatable when diagnosed and helped by medication, anti-depressants and pyschotherapy sessions.
sadly, medication and stuff dont help everyone. Anne Sexton mentioned to her therapist that Sylvia Plath's suicide ought to have been hers. there are many people who commit suicide because after years and years of therapy and whatnot, nothing has improved.
These people need help, and a form of understanding from society and their loved ones that they are not alone in their volatile state, but are we ready to do so?
the singapore government complains about the rising suicide rate in singapore. however, after all these years of health education, i just realized two years ago that we never ever touched on mental illness AT ALL. if people are not educated about it, how will they ever know anything about it? most people i know think that its just "in their minds". they cannot seem to understand that depression is a chemical imbalance. that its not something people can control. they get mad at the victim and tell them to just "get a grip", or "just be more positive". people probably want to help. but because they dont know how, they end up making things worse.
Often,s the stigma sometimes attached to mental illness means that some people delay seeking help. Perhaps if we are more aware of the causes and effects of mental illnesses - and realize that it can happen to [/b]anyone;[/b] even ourselves, more people would seek help as and when they feel 'disturbed' by the silent forces of the mind.
a lot of people dont realize that they have a problem. especially schizophrenics. which is why these diseases are so dangerous. the victims do not realize that they are in danger. that they are a danger to themselves and the people around them. many people get help because someone figured out that something was terribly wrong and therefore sorta made the person go seek medical help. and sometimes the victim doesnt because even the victim thinks that mental illnesses are (put in all the stereotypical stuff people say about mental illnesses) and are therefore insulted that someone thinks they are diseased.
I think the society's attitude and mindset toward these individuals has to change. Then, and only then... perhaps more would work toward improving their ability to function, and thus, enhancing their way of life
i dont think it is entirely possible to change the people's mindsets. but the only way to improve things would be to educate the people. only then will they be able to understand why people with certain illnesses behave a certain way. and so that they can treat them in a more correct way, and try to help. and even then, it is hard to help. [/b] -
They aren't infallible, but they have been trained, they have the relevant experiences, that makes them more credible. I never once said MD's were perfect and you have heard me relate horror tales of the mistakes docs make.Originally posted by the Bear:you know what the problem is?
people think just because they are MDs or whatever, they are infallable..
geniuses are usually stupid as all hell.. an expert with a hammer thinks everything can be solved with a hammer..
it didn't take a tailor to point out that the emperor was naked you know?
Where medical matters are concerned, I would leave it to the experts to battle it out and show us conclusive evidence to back their claims. Just because you've read some medical literature over the web or in the press doesn't render you qualified to diss them all either.
Although experts aren't infallible, the training they've received does help, at least, I hope it helps. -
I just wish to say this - I prefer to see conclusive facts, especially from qualified and trained professionals, before I formulate my opinion. I'd rather learn from the experts, otherwise, you'll end up dealing with a lot of false claims, fallacies, and anecdotes that get us nowhere.Originally posted by udontknowme:hmm...
maybe thats in singapore?
i dont know what the situation is like in singapore though...
numbers wise, i suppose its the same almost anywhere...
only a small number of people who are already seeking help end up killing themselves/attempting suicide(ok, slightly more attempt it...)
however, the cases that i know of, the people do more drastic things like overdosing on their own meds/hanging/overdosing on other types of drug/etc.
then there are the eating disordered people. one i know of is anorexic and sees it as starving herself to death because she failed all those suicide attempts.
another who is a compulsive overeater sees it as stuffing herself to death -
in the technical world.Originally posted by Rhonda:I just wish to say this - I prefer to see conclusive facts, especially from qualified and trained professionals, before I formulate my opinion. I'd rather learn from the experts, otherwise, you'll end up dealing with a lot of false claims, fallacies, and anecdotes that get us nowhere.
experts only tell you what you cannot do.
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If the above conversation really took place, you have grounds for complaint and redress because the counsellor wasn't acting professionally.Originally posted by udontknowme:I AGREE!!!
sadly, many professionals think they know a lot.
and the things they say end up making their patient feel worse.
here is something 'interesting'
cousellor: are you depressed?
teen: no...
cuonsellor: are you suicidal?
teen: no...
counsellor: so why are you seeing me? there are other people who need more help.
teen: like what kind of people?
counsellor: poeple who come in and are depressed and want to get better
WTF!!! its people who are depressed and dont know it/dont seek help that need the most help!
But just because a few professionals flounder does not negate the good that all other professionals do.
And, I do not belittle the rigorous training that doctors have to go through. I agree not all medical students graduate to become 'good' doctors, just like two people can be put through the same training, and whilst one may make valuable contributions professionally, the other may prove himself to be more of a liability than an asset to society with his malpractice and all that.
We should do our part - if we see dangerous malpractice, bring it to the attention of the relevant authorities. But to belittle a profession with nary a thought on the training involved, the rigorous standards and the checks that are put in place, that is impulsive. -
In the technical world, I'd consider you an 'expert' in your area, based on your experience and scope of work. You've been trained, and you have put in hundreds of man-hours on-the-job.Originally posted by kopiosatu:in the technical world.
experts only tell you what you cannot do.
That's what I mean by experts. It's not just the alphabets you put behind your name to embellish it per se. -
Hmm .. can't really conclude nor decide which disorder is "legit" & which is not.
All I know is, don't knock it till you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes.
After all just because you can't comprehend or accept something doesn't mean it doesn't exist... ! -
i hurt myself today
to see if i still feel
i focus on the pain
the only thing that's real
the needle tears a hole
the old familiar sting
try to kill it all away
but i remember everything
what have i become?
my sweetest friend
everyone i know
goes away in the end
you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
i wear my crown of shit
on my liar's chair
full of broken thoughts
i cannot repair
beneath the stain of time
the feeling disappears
you are someone else
i am still right here
what have i become?
my sweetest friend
everyone i know
goes away in the end
you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
if i could start again
a million miles away
i would keep myself
i would find a way -
x 2!Originally posted by choco B:Hmm .. can't really conclude nor decide which disorder is "legit" & which is not.
All I know is, don't knock it till you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes.
After all just because you can't comprehend or accept something doesn't mean it doesn't exist... ! -
ST reported today that many young people suffers from bipolar disorder.
they cut themselves to relief stress.
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wow i m impressed by e extent of this discussion
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Have u ever seen a child diagnosed with ADHD before? A severe case of ADHD?
How about Autism? For many years, " the medical community generally believed autism was a psychological disturbance caused by detached, or uncaring mothers (refrigerator mothers.)" Do you think it is a true case of brain disorder or another fradulent diagnosis? -
Did you guys read the article on this over-achiever who killed her mother because of all the stress they are putting on her to achieve?
Seriously she got grounded for scoring a 95% or was it 96% -
The one in the US right? Poor girl.Originally posted by elindra:Did you guys read the article on this over-achiever who killed her mother because of all the stress they are putting on her to achieve?
Seriously she got grounded for scoring a 95% or was it 96%
(notice I have zero sympathy for her parents) -
I was appalled by what her parents did! When they were displeased with her performance, they would make her stand naked in a corner!!Originally posted by elindra:Did you guys read the article on this over-achiever who killed her mother because of all the stress they are putting on her to achieve?
Seriously she got grounded for scoring a 95% or was it 96% 
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Yeah the one in the USOriginally posted by av98m:The one in the US right? Poor girl.
(notice I have zero sympathy for her parents)
I mean her achievements would do ANY parent proud!
And it is not enough for them!
I'm not surprised that she snapped and went over the edge!
I'm just surprised the courts there were so hard on her -
Not just bipolar disorder... depression too.Originally posted by dragg:ST reported today that many young people suffers from bipolar disorder.
they cut themselves to relief stress.
Bipolar Disorder just made international news in 2003, with the suicide of a world-famous 3-star Michelin Chef, Bernard Loiseau. In his autobiography written by Rudolph Chelminski, a famous food-writer and Bernard's friend.
Upon hindsight, Louiseau's wife, staff, friends, and even guests of his hotel, La Cote d'Or, had noticed peculiarities in his behaviour and moods months before his suicide, however, no one really knew what he was suffering from, and the only person who suspected Bipolar Disorder, a Psychologist who stayed the weekend in his hotel, didn't pursue the matter with Loiseau.
People afflicted with Bipolar Disorder bear a heavy burden. They literally wear themselves down with sheer exhaustion.
Loiseau was initially put on medication for depression, but the medication made him 'slow' and blur, and he couldn't afford to be like that when he's working, and so he stopped taking his medication.
In the end, overwhelmed by the tides of misery brought on by an aggravation of Bipolar Disorder, he ended his life at home. -
Yes. One severe case.Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:Have u ever seen a child diagnosed with ADHD before? A severe case of ADHD?
How about Autism? For many years, " the medical community generally believed autism was a psychological disturbance caused by detached, or uncaring mothers (refrigerator mothers.)" Do you think it is a true case of brain disorder or another fradulent diagnosis?
But his mom refused to put the kid on medication, so a few of us rallied around her to help rotate babysitting duties for a while. All of us got worn out. Really peng sanz! -
yah. Some kids in my school are diagnosed with ADHD and no, not all of them misbehave or have bad 'moral conduct' or have bad behaviour.Originally posted by Rhonda:Yes. One severe case. But his mom refused to put the kid on medication, so a few of us rallied around her to help rotate babysitting duties for a while. All of us got worn out. Really peng sanz!