Sex For Sale
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I don't think I'll ever understand why a woman / man trading sex for money is such a terrible thing as far as the existing laws are concerned. I've heard many of the arguements advocating and / or opposing the justification of prostitution, and some may even make sense - that is until I read deeper into it, and realize that most are just a blatant case of the powers that protect people from their own ignorance and narrow mindedness.
Having been exposed to some of the goings-on in the flesh trade whilst doing research for my General Paper exams... I am aware of the hazards that come with the job. I've heard horror stories about people getting abusive with the girls that they have paid for (and thus, deem to own for that period of time), diseases that are totally rampant; and of which some have no known cure - and mental and physical batterings that these women (and men) have to put up with. But I also believe that it goes with the territory as an occupational hazard, just as someone who handles dangerous animals is likely to suffer a bite at least once during their careers. When one enters a certain mode of employment, undoubtedly the perks as well as the negative aspects comes as a package along with it.
Being one of the oldest profession in the world... the sex trade does not seem like it will abate any time soon. We may argue that paying for sex is just NOT done... at least not in a dignified world... but we also have to bear in mind that not everyone can boast of the fact that they are able to get sexual gratification as and when they need it. There are plenty of reasons for this, some valid - whilst some will just remain as 'excuses'.
I don't think it's fair at all to label all sex workers as immoral, or amoral, for that matter... because so long as the demand is there, there will always be a ready supply. Assuming we were to abolish prostitution on moral grounds, it will only invite back alley cubicles, where the general public is placed even more at risk when it is not compulsory for these workers to be health-screened.
Prostitution is considered a vice... but in my opinion, it is a vice that has become so much a part of society that it is practically impossible (and an unnecessary 'intrusion') to try to completely eradicate this trade. Like it or not - it is here firmly to stay.
What's your take on this? -
prosttution is available in alst if not all countries. its is frowned upon by the govt yt gained a form of acceptance in society.
thus in sg n most govts, those who dabble in this trade are registered n legalised workers.
honestly, id rather have desperate men pay to feed their cravings then pay their unwanted attention to innocent women which will result in rape / molestation cases -
Prostitution is a combination of sex and free enterprise. Which of those two are people opposed to?
but seriously, it's been around, it's around, it'll always be around...
well, i've always figured it's not mine to judge.. and only go stop the thing if the sex workers were forced into the trade or the workers are below the age of majority...
and if the people who go to them choose to, who are we to judge them too?
so the only thing is not to drive it underground.. but rather, something the gabrament did right here.. they attempted to regulate it with a few "legal" bordellos.. and the sex workers are tested for infections and only allowed to work when medically cleared..
however, the free-lance ones.. those could be a problem..
maybe the way to go is to regulate it totally but not letting it be taboo?
but i can see the prudes up in arms about this.. -
The only things that irks me are (a) Child prostituition (b) Forced prostituition and (c) Freelance prostituition
The thing to take note is the difference between prostituition in a state which has regulations versus the vice trade in unregulated or developing societies. The later sees greater amounts of related vices like drug abuse, syndicates etc -
I'll be the first to admit that it can be pretty tempting to want to go to red-light districts to indulge in pleasures of the flesh.
At the same time, though, what stops me is the belief that first and formost, sex is an act of love between a man and his wife. By having sex for sale, it cheapens a priceless act of love into something which can be paid for with money.
In addition, as much as the sex workers do have regular checkups to certify that they are free of disease, it is by no means absolutely fool-proof. While she may have had a check-up the previous week, for instance, there's still no telling whether the guy before you who did it with her had a bad case of gonorrhoea or syphillis.
There are condoms and spermicides, but condoms can leak and spermicides have expiry dates as well.
As a former army medic I once had a guy come up to me complaining about pain upon urinating. Upon further questioning, it transpired that he would discharge pus along with his urine.
He initially denied that he had had unprotected casual sex, but upon my telling him that I won't be able to help him unless he told me the whole truth, he said that he had had a one-night stand two weeks before.
I had to commandeer a land rover to take the guy and myself to the nearest medical center even though we were in an exercise at 1am in the middle of the jungle. My CSM was pissed off over it, but he was forced to agree with my explanation that gonorrhoea isn't something to be taken very lightly.
Needless to say, that incident made me swear off casual sex - be it with a prostitute or anyone else. I can wait for my wedding night to lose my virginity. -
Singapore does license her prostitutes. That is why there is a thriving business model in Geylang after all. The occasional sweeps and raids are meant to remove "independents" who have not registered themselves with the appropriate authortities and thus have not gone through the required medical screening. This nation has a very practical approach to the normal vices, such as gambling and prostititution, so it has made it available through limited channels.
However, you'll note that this is not the usual custom throughout the global community. Most take a moral and at least publicly intolerant stand against what is coined as the "oldest profession in the world." This results an incredible discrepancy between law and reality. Take a gander at the US of A. Street prostitution is illegal and its an everyday occurence to have a lady of the night arrested or at least fined. However, in a hypocritical manner, the government condones the pornography industry, where women are sometimes subjected to worst degradations to their bodies for the almighty dollar. They've even made public heroes of not just Hugh Hefner, known for as the creator of Playboy who can at least lay some tenous claim to artistic value, but have also feted Larry Flynt, owner of Hustler and other subsidiaries that cater to a baser desire in his audiences.
Going back to the reason why prostitution will never be legalized, it is because there is a essential need for the government to take a morally superior stance. In order to protect its legitimacy, it has to be viewed as a stalwart of morals, security, and economic prosperity. Otherwise it loses it mandates to govern. Furthermore, legalization is usually only popular among the intelligentsia, and academics who view this problem in a purely cost/benefit analysis. This neglects the moral and innate biasness that have been introduced by religion, upbringing, and the media. After all, if you legalize prositution, then you would have to make allowances for the drug trade (another highly debated topic) and the list would never stop. -
Sex for sale isn't immoral???? My whole world just broke down... which values are correct then????? Till what level will we lower the moral values next time?
I can understand when someone earns money with prostitution because she/he has really really no other way of earning money and is in a desperate situation and needs money for bare surviving.
But else ... -
but my morals may not be your morals may not by other people's morals...
to force our own morality on other people reeks of fascism..
if you think it is wrong, don't do it for yourself, don't use it, and teach your children that it is wrong...
i would think morality, much like religion, is something personal and each will have their own and should remain so without someone else forcing theirs on anyone else..Originally posted by thinkdifferent:Sex for sale isn't immoral???? My whole world just broke down... which values are correct then????? Till what level will we lower the moral values next time?
I can understand when someone earns money with prostitution because she/he has really really no other way of earning money and is in a desperate situation and needs money for bare surviving.
But else ... -
whats your best price?Originally posted by thinkdifferent:Sex for sale isn't immoral???? My whole world just broke down... which values are correct then????? Till what level will we lower the moral values next time?
I can understand when someone earns money with prostitution because she/he has really really no other way of earning money and is in a desperate situation and needs money for bare surviving.
But else ...
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my take is that there is only supply with demand. And yes its certainly not fair to label sex workers immoral. That should be the label for their customers, not them.Originally posted by BabyRS:I don't think I'll ever understand why a woman / man trading sex for money is such a terrible thing as far as the existing laws are concerned. I've heard many of the arguements advocating and / or opposing the justification of prostitution, and some may even make sense - that is until I read deeper into it, and realize that most are just a blatant case of the powers that protect people from their own ignorance and narrow mindedness.
Having been exposed to some of the goings-on in the flesh trade whilst doing research for my General Paper exams... I am aware of the hazards that come with the job. I've heard horror stories about people getting abusive with the girls that they have paid for (and thus, deem to own for that period of time), diseases that are totally rampant; and of which some have no known cure - and mental and physical batterings that these women (and men) have to put up with. But I also believe that it goes with the territory as an occupational hazard, just as someone who handles dangerous animals is likely to suffer a bite at least once during their careers. When one enters a certain mode of employment, undoubtedly the perks as well as the negative aspects comes as a package along with it.
Being one of the oldest profession in the world... the sex trade does not seem like it will abate any time soon. We may argue that paying for sex is just NOT done... at least not in a dignified world... but we also have to bear in mind that not everyone can boast of the fact that they are able to get sexual gratification as and when they need it. There are plenty of reasons for this, some valid - whilst some will just remain as 'excuses'.
I don't think it's fair at all to label all sex workers as immoral, or amoral, for that matter... because so long as the demand is there, there will always be a ready supply. Assuming we were to abolish prostitution on moral grounds, it will only invite back alley cubicles, where the general public is placed even more at risk when it is not compulsory for these workers to be health-screened.
Prostitution is considered a vice... but in my opinion, it is a vice that has become so much a part of society that it is practically impossible (and an unnecessary 'intrusion') to try to completely eradicate this trade. Like it or not - it is here firmly to stay.
What's your take on this? -
tempting for who?Originally posted by fudgester:I'll be the first to admit that it can be pretty tempting to want to go to red-light districts to indulge in pleasures of the flesh.
to be honest, i've always thought that anyone who needs to pay for sex is sort of a sad f*ck isn't he? so i really don't get the gist of how its tempting in any way. Anyone who does that is basically announcing to the world that he's a sad sod who can't get laid, and/or he's so desperate that he has to go pay for it. There are tons of people who don't get laid but who don't feel the need to go pay for sex, so I really cannot comprehend how its tempting in any way.
It could just be a guy thing, I dunno.
But seriously, why do I feel like the world of today I'm living in seems to think sex is everything? I can't stand it. It gets to the point where I hate it. Theres so much more to life but it feels like people don't see that anymore. -
unfortunately as you know yourself that is not the defination of morality. Morality is not a personal view, what is deemed immorale is dependant on the society that you live in.Originally posted by the Bear:but my morals may not be your morals may not by other people's morals...
to force our own morality on other people reeks of fascism..
if you think it is wrong, don't do it for yourself, don't use it, and teach your children that it is wrong...
i would think morality, much like religion, is something personal and each will have their own and should remain so without someone else forcing theirs on anyone else..
Sex for sale in any culture is immorale by standing. But more liberated minded people or those that want a quick buck will allow it to go on. Just because prostitution is the "oldest" profession does not make it right. Thuggery and murder are 2 other oldest professions... do we then say yeah lets do it!
It is important to understand that there is a clear distinction between rape/child molestors and consenting people wanting to indulge in sex. Having prostitutions will not mean there are less crimes of rape and child abuse. Infact you can alway find people who will argue it increases these crimes. Like the porn arguement.
OK let me ask people here this question
If this trade is then deemed "normal" and "morale" in society... will you be fine if the SO in your life visits these places on a regular basis? -
its all about supply and demand, when there is demand, and people are willing to pay for it.. there will be those that are willing to supply.
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it is a personal view.. if it was the "societal view" it would probably be law.. other than that, it's just being a bunch of busybodies and a sewing circle spreading malicious gossip
as for your question about the SO thing, hey! it's your SO.. you chose that person.. live with it..
to try to taichi the responsibility of that choice and its consequences to someone else is a cop-out...
morality, like religion, is not for society to judge...Originally posted by Kan_i:
unfortunately as you know yourself that is not the defination of morality. Morality is not a personal view, what is deemed immorale is dependant on the society that you live in.
Sex for sale in any culture is immorale by standing. But more liberated minded people or those that want a quick buck will allow it to go on. Just because prostitution is the "oldest" profession does not make it right. Thuggery and murder are 2 other oldest professions... do we then say yeah lets do it!
It is important to understand that there is a clear distinction between rape/child molestors and consenting people wanting to indulge in sex. Having prostitutions will not mean there are less crimes of rape and child abuse. Infact you can alway find people who will argue it increases these crimes. Like the porn arguement.
[b]OK let me ask people here this question
If this trade is then deemed "normal" and "morale" in society... will you be fine if the SO in your life visits these places on a regular basis? [/b] -
But a "Societal View" and Law is different. A law might not be passed to control it if the government deems that it is good for the economy, kinda like what sparked off the Casino debate.Originally posted by the Bear:it is a personal view.. if it was the "societal view" it would probably be law.. other than that, it's just being a bunch of busybodies and a sewing circle spreading malicious gossip
as for your question about the SO thing, hey! it's your SO.. you chose that person.. live with it..
to try to taichi the responsibility of that choice and its consequences to someone else is a cop-out...
morality, like religion, is not for society to judge... -
also, the existing issue of cigarettes. am i right?Originally posted by elindra:But a "Societal View" and Law is different. A law might not be passed to control it if the government deems that it is good for the economy, kinda like what sparked off the Casino debate. -
Morals are also values and certain values are just downright immoral, no two ways about it. Infidelity, Adultery, Stealing, Cheating, Not Being Filial, Abusing Children and Others, etc. You can talk till the cows come home and invent all sorts of fanciful excuses for them all but at the end of the day, there are values that are moral and those that are just plain immoral.Originally posted by the Bear:but my morals may not be your morals may not by other people's morals...
to force our own morality on other people reeks of fascism..
if you think it is wrong, don't do it for yourself, don't use it, and teach your children that it is wrong...
i would think morality, much like religion, is something personal and each will have their own and should remain so without someone else forcing theirs on anyone else..
It is not being a fascist to uphold those morals. If we are all so permissive and lax, society will sooner or later crumble. We are, each of us, a small nucleas that together, make up society. What you do will have an effect on a few people other than yourself because your actions, be they good or bad, will have repurcussions. That's a well-known ripple effect.
Sadly, with more people getting 'educated' and more eloquent, they can make light of immorality and make their misdeeds sound like something so trivial. Also, with immorality being so rampant, it has slowly become 'normal' and no one bats an eye anymore when they hear accounts of adultery and promiscuity amongst their friends.
Is this a good thing? I definitely do not think so! Back then, when values were upheld more rampantly, the fact that stigmas were attached to certain immoral doings meant that there was a sort of societal 'check' and people think twice about committing such acts because of the sheer fear of being stigmatised. That in itself was a sort of self-check and societal 'preventive measure'.
It's folly to think that one's actions will only affect the doer alone. In certain situations, what's black is black, and what's white is white... gray areas should be the exception rather than the rule in certain issues. -
in India not so long ago, it was societal views that those who were born in the Brahmin and Kshatriya castes were "high born" and those who were born in the Pariah castes were to be spit upon...
and not so long before the british took over the place, it was in their laws...
religions were imposed on people..
morality was imposed on people..
not so long ago, the morality of Mussolini was imposed on Italy... (read fascism)
so a person chooses to sleep around.. so a person is gay.. so the person chooses to indulge in a promiscious life... it is all consensual.. do we have any right to impose our own morality on them?
so a person chooses to have sex in exchange for money... as much as you don't like it, it is what that person chose in life.. do we have any right to impose our morality on that person?
if you think that we must impose our morality, our religion and our customs and traditions of others, you would be no different from the Taliban..
i think this has been discussed to death.. the choices people make are their own.. if you do not like your folks choosing things for you, telling you where and when you can choose to go out and have a curfew on you, this is infinitely worse...
our morality is our own.. it is personal choice..
to impose our morality on others, is nothing but fascism.. -
Not sure exactly what is immoral about it - is it the prostitute that we are supposed to opine about or is it the person who visit the prostitute?
-blink-
I think to force anyone to do ANYTHING that is harmful to him or herself against his/her will (that includes sex and haircuts) is.. well.. not a nice thing to do at all. -
prostitution is part and parcel of any society.
there is nothing shameful about it.
all human being need sex. -
hahah bad hair cut huh?Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:Not sure exactly what is immoral about it - is it the prostitute that we are supposed to opine about or is it the person who visit the prostitute?
-blink-
I think to force anyone to do ANYTHING that is harmful to him or herself against his/her will (that includes sex and haircuts) is.. well.. not a nice thing to do at all. -
You are making such a huge mountain out of a molehill! Fascism? Please! Let's not go around misusing words, calling simple headaches as migraines and blowing things way out of proportion!Originally posted by the Bear:in India not so long ago, it was societal views that those who were born in the Brahmin and Kshatriya castes were "high born" and those who were born in the Pariah castes were to be spit upon...
and not so long before the british took over the place, it was in their laws...
religions were imposed on people..
morality was imposed on people..
not so long ago, the morality of Mussolini was imposed on Italy... (read fascism)
so a person chooses to sleep around.. so a person is gay.. so the person chooses to indulge in a promiscious life... it is all consensual.. do we have any right to impose our own morality on them?
so a person chooses to have sex in exchange for money... as much as you don't like it, it is what that person chose in life.. do we have any right to impose our morality on that person?
if you think that we must impose our morality, our religion and our customs and traditions of others, you would be no different from the Taliban..
i think this has been discussed to death.. the choices people make are their own.. if you do not like your folks choosing things for you, telling you where and when you can choose to go out and have a curfew on you, this is infinitely worse...
our morality is our own.. it is personal choice..
to impose our morality on others, is nothing but fascism..
It is true that people have the right to make their choices, but that does not mean that if someone makes an immoral choice, it becomes moral just because that person is exercising his/her freedom of choice.
I think you are confusing choice and morality.
No matter what one does, one cannot escape the consequences that result from that action. And like it or not, there will always be a moral yardstick against which our deeds are measured. It is inescapable.
I certainly hope that our society continues to uphold moral standards, because I do not wish to live in a society where immorality is rampant and worse, where everyone has a heck-care, bo chup, lackadaisical attitude about it. I do not want to see immoral acts committed in my backyard, to put it succintly. If they want to exercise their choices, please do it in their own backyards.
Whilst I've made friends with homosexuals, bisexuals, adulterers and even one prostitute, it does not mean that I think what they're doing is moral. I do not condemn them, but I shall not tolerate immoral acts.
To modify your mantra, Love the Person, Hate the Misdeed. -
no.. you are the one mistakened..
choice is the basis of morality..
if i force my morality on you, remove your choice...
i choose, i choose everything, including my personal code of morality..
they choose, they choose their own personal morality or immorality...
do you have any right to force your morality on them?
if you stop them from doing anything because it offends your morality, what then? they force you do to things because it offends their morality that you do not do that?
the islamic nutters murder people because they are "infidels"..
now, do you get it?
ultimately, it is a personal choice.. without choice, there can be no morality... -
-jumps into fray-
Taking morality as a set of principles that define right from wrong.. that I think Yes, every society has its own set of morality - in fact to belong to a society, you need to prescribe to it, or else you become an outcast.
However, if you have ever argued with a friend who decided to pick up a set of items left behind by someone else in the library and take it home and think there's NOTHING wrong with that (but its someone else's!!!!), then you will realise that regardless of how society imposes its set of morality on people, ultimately yeah, people make their own choices and standards of right from wrong.
So while, in your eyes, you can define that an act is immoral. And in society's eyes, an act is DEFINITELY immoral. YOu can't force a person to accept that what society defines and immoral is wrong, and moral is right. -
I think the keyword that works for almost everything in life is "Moderation".
There has to be a balance (be it views, opinions, or a deed) in life so that we may be aware of what is permissible, or otherwise. So that we are able to distinguish between what is right or wrong, and what works for us, and what doesn't.
As such, society's views will also differ. What would be perfectly acceptable to one, may not hold any grounds with another.
Of course... cast all rational sense to the wind, and without any doubt, faster than we would even think possible, the society and its inhabitants will decay. There always has to be a measure of control... because when human beings are given a free reign over their choices and options, they WILL, to varying degrees, exploit that freedom.
Prostitution is not the best job option for anyone, in fact - any other job which does not involve the selling of oneself and one's dignity is better than it. It is often viewed as 'taking the easy way out' - many who are hard pressed cannot resist the temptation and lure of easy money without much effort and hard work. But it still does serve a purpose in life... there are many men who may have to pay for sex in order to sate their sexual desires, for only reasons that they are aware of.