How do you occupy yourself on the plane?
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I wont know the detail, all i know is that I heard a bang and there was huge flame coming out of the left engine and the plane was fully loaded with passenger and fuel. During the take off, that is where you need the maximum trust, if there is a sudden drop in trust during initial take off, I am sure the plane with experience a sudden drop in altitute, and supposing that the pilot is not quick enough to response to the problem, I am sure I wont be talking to you right now and my family experience a windfall from SIA overnight.Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:That's a bit of an exaggeration.
A fully laden 747 is perfectly capable of taking off and climbing out (albeit at reduced performance) with an engine out. This is an FAA requirement--all multii-engined commercial aircraft have to demonstrate adequate take-off performance with an engine inoperative, to be certified for operation in US airspace.
If the engine failure occurs after "decision speed" (known as V1 in aviation parlance), the pilot continues with the take-off and retrims the aircraft for a three-engine climbout. At this point, most airline operational procedures call for fuel to be dumped overboard to bring the aircraft's weight down below the maximum landing weight, and an expedited (not emergency) landing to be performed.
If the engine failure occurs before V1 (as it most likely did in your scenario), standard procedure is to abort the take-off. When the flight crew calculate the performance numbers prior to the flight, runway length requirements are determined based on an aborted takeoff at V1, so there's no question as to having adequate runway length to safely stop the aircraft.
Fire containment and suppression systems on modern turbofan powerplants have advanced to the point where uncontained and sustained engine fires are almost unheard of. I'm willing to bet that what you experienced was a relatively rare phenomenon called compressor stall, wherein airflow into the engine is disturbed or interrupted, causing the turbine to essentialy backfire and throw some flame out the jetpipe. A compressor stall prior to V1 would have resulted in an engine shutdown and aborted take-off.
So, to sum it up, in your scenario, if the "fire" had occurred 30 seconds after take-off, it's hightly doubtful you would have "crashed and burst into flame." Also, if the passengers didn't deplane for a full hour after the 747 rolled to a stop, the "emergency" couldn't have been that serious.
The reason we were held there for more than an hour was because the flame was contained. If there is nothing serious with the plane, I am sure they will not inform us that the plane is unable to continue its flight and we have to take anothe MAS flight or stay over for another day with meal and hotel paid for. I still have a copy of the letter from SIA explain the problem, and hopefully this is the one and only one. -
i play with my best friend jetta. wanna try??Originally posted by jetta:How I envy those of you who don't suffer from motion sickness. I can only function on flights after popping some drammamine. Even so, I can only read a book for so long. Can't even play games because it just makes me dizzy. So all I can do is watch a movie or two and sleep sleep sleep. -
Again, multi-engined commercial aircraft are required to demonstrate the ability to take off and climb out with an engine inoperative at maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) in order to be certified for flight operations. A 747 is not going to suddenly lose altitude on climbout after an engine failure because the remaining three engines are still providing more than adequate thrust to maintain a positive rate of climb at MTOW. It is a safety margin designed into the aircraft, and a performance requirement mandated by the FAA. There are no two ways about that.Originally posted by Gazelle:I wont know the detail, all i know is that I heard a bang and there was huge flame coming out of the left engine and the plane was fully loaded with passenger and fuel. During the take off, that is where you need the maximum trust, if there is a sudden drop in trust during initial take off, I am sure the plane with experience a sudden drop in altitute, and supposing that the pilot is not quick enough to response to the problem, I am sure I wont be talking to you right now and my family experience a windfall from SIA overnight.
The reason we were held there for more than an hour was because the flame was contained. If there is nothing serious with the plane, I am sure they will not inform us that the plane is unable to continue its flight and we have to take anothe MAS flight or stay over for another day with meal and hotel paid for. I still have a copy of the letter from SIA explain the problem, and hopefully this is the one and only one.
And yes, commercial pilots are trained and retrained to handle a multitude of emergency situations, including engine failure during take-off. They have to undergo multiple checkrides and requalification assessments (with an overwhelming emphasis on emergency procedures) during their careers to maintain their licenses. I think that a pilot "not (being) quick enough to response to the problem" should be the least of your worries when you fly on a commercial airliner. -
Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:
I have only flew a warrior piper and cessna before, cant make any further comment on 747 safety feature. All I can say is that, that is not a good thing to happen regardless of whatever safety measure they have in place for the aircraft. especially if you have paid the premium for flying with SIA.
Again, multi-engined commercial aircraft are required to demonstrate the ability to take off and climb out with an engine inoperative [b]at maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) in order to be certified for flight operations. A 747 is not going to suddenly lose altitude on climbout after an engine failure because the remaining three engines are still providing more than adequate thrust to maintain a positive rate of climb at MTOW. It is a safety margin designed into the aircraft, and a performance requirement mandated by the FAA. There are no two ways about that.
And yes, commercial pilots are trained and retrained to handle a multitude of emergency situations, including engine failure during take-off. They have to undergo multiple checkrides and requalification assessments (with an overwhelming emphasis on emergency procedures) during their careers to maintain their licenses. I think that a pilot "not (being) quick enough to response to the problem" should be the least of your worries when you fly on a commercial airliner.[/b] -
Here is an article on engine failures during take-off.
a) supposing if the plane reach lift off and not at speed of V1, the pilot will have to abort the take off at high speed and supposing if the plane run out of run way, will that be a problem?
b) Since this is a split second decision, is there a possibility that the pilot might make the wrong decision to continue the takeoff even if the plane has not reach the speed of V1 or vice versa?
c) During takeoff I suppose all 4 engine of the 747 will be at full throttle, hence if one fail how would the other 3 help to conpensate for the sudden drop in trust especially when the plane has not reach its best rate of climb speed? I thought it is the flaps that will help conpensate for the lost in trust and not the engine?
Question: Are engine failures common during take-off? Kindly explain what the captain does when an engine fails while taking off. Can the captain continue down the runway and take off on only one engine or do they have to remain on the ground and hope they have enough runway to stop?
— M.J. Harris, Danville, Va.
Answer: Engine failures during takeoff seem to be a major cause of concern for passengers as I've been asked this question several times. I can give you several reasons to put this fear to rest.
Firstly, engine failure on takeoff is something that doesn't happen very often. In over 32 years of flying, I've not only never experienced one, but I don't even know any pilots who've mentioned having had one. I'm not saying they're impossible or that they never happen — just that they happen very rarely. Engine reliability is quite remarkable.
The second reason is that though rare, it's one of the most highly practiced maneuvers pilots learn in simulator training.
So if it happens rarely, why do pilots train for it so much? Because if it does happen, it's extremely important to execute the maneuver correctly.
Pilots practice it every time they go in for recurrent training, and it is a mandatory maneuver for check-rides during which pilots demonstrate on a regular basis that they can deal with various emergencies and execute normal procedures.
If an engine were to fail during takeoff, a pilot would keep the airplane going straight down the runway by adding rudder to compensate for the loss of thrust on one side. The airplane I fly — the B-777 — is so smart that it will put in its own rudder depending on exactly how and where the engine failed. The pilot backs this up with rudder input (which is done with our feet on the rudder pedals) if necessary. Once airborne, the autopilot may be turned on after the pilots ensure the airplane is stabilized and gaining altitude. The autopilot helps fly the airplane while the pilots run the appropriate checklists.
On every takeoff there is a certain speed, known as V1 (where V is "velocity") that is calculated ahead of time based on factors like aircraft weight, wind, flap settings, runway conditions, air temperature, etc. Calculations are made by the pilots using performance charts or, on some aircraft, through the aircraft computer.
If an engine fails prior to reaching V1, pilots will abort the takeoff. After V1, it's safer to continue. For these reasons V1 is sometimes referred to as the "go, no-go" speed. Under all but the most extraordinary of circumstances, if the aircraft speed is V1 or greater, the pilot will continue the takeoff.
Airplanes are perfectly capable of continuing a takeoff with a failed engine, and it's a far safer situation to become airborne with an engine out than to abort a takeoff at a high speed and run out of runway. Once airborne, the pilots have the time they need to deal with the situation in an orderly manner and prepare to land again with a full length of runway at their disposal. When the weather is bad, there is a designated alternate for each takeoff. This is where we'd go to land if landing at the airport of departure isn't possible.
Both emergency and normal procedures are briefed by each crew prior to every flight. Each airline has its own procedures, but the bottom line is that pilots are trained to expect the worst. So, even though it happens rarely, pilots are always prepared for engine failure — just in case.