I have a bunch of lousy staff
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All my life, I have always been thankful that I have very good staff under me, assisting me in every job that I go into. In my past few jobs, my ex staff and I were like a group of very good teammates, good friends and we help one another like a happy family. We were very united etc.
Recently, I went into this job and soon my boss made me in charge of a few staff. Gosh! These few staff are trouble makers. They can definitely work... I mean... in the first place, they went thru interviews and selection before they landed onto this job. I'm sure they have some good quality. But somehow, they have damn bad attitude. My predecessor already complaint like hell about these staff, threatening to sack them and stuff. When I took over, I face with the same problem. They damn chao geng! MC lah... mother sick, father sick, cat sick, pet sick... all kinds of stories and excuses not to come to work or claim a few hours off. They like to do this mostly on weekends, when they are fully aware (from the time they interview for this job) that they are required to work on Sat and Sun.
Every weekend, at least one of them will call me to give me some crap story.
I really dun wish to mention their race, cuz I really really dun want to sound racist. And I also dun want this thread to become a racist discussion topic. But one colleague of mine belonging to that same race also suggested that I change this whole team and hire chinese staff only.
I really dunno why they are like that. Is it the race? I don't think so, cuz in my previous job, I also have non chinese staff and they were so hardworking. Is it their pay too low? But at least one of them told me that she needs the job & is very afraid to lose the job (but then, she is also one of them who chao geng). Or is it they are lowly educated?
I know I have to sack at least 1 person from the team to make things move. Or maybe I dun need to do that. I also dunno. I am just too angry to think clearly right now. I just hope, by the time I return to office, I am calm enough to talk to them and not shoot off angry words from my mouth. -
I empathizes you. I face kind of the same problem too.
I am in a dept where the ones in power wants to be the nice person. Whenever anyone steps out of line with their action, eg. sleeping on the job, talk to gf on the phone, the ones in power would not voice out and reins the person in. In the end, everyone steps over him/her head la.
This is especially difficult for me as i am sandwiched in the middle as i need to get the employees to produce sufficiently good work on weekly deadlines. Imagine dealing with people who sleeps right in front of you. When you talk to them, they always say 'har' after that. That really pisses me off.
Does all companies have protocol to follow when dealing with staffs? -
let me give you example of their "patterns" or "actions" in the last few weeks...
Week1
Staff A (on Fri sms me. He was on off on Fri but fell sick & was given MC) - "I need to shift my off day from Fri to Sunday because I need to go for a blood test." (since when blood test laboratory works on Sunday one? and since when or which company allows staff to cancel off day/leave to take MC one?) After that, he insisted on not working on the Sunday by taking another MC.
Staff B (on a Sat sms me) - "Tomorrow (Sunday) I need to take two hours off (in advance as she has no more extra hours or Off in lieu to claim) to attend to some urgent matters" When I asked what is the matter, she only said it's family matters.
Staff C also asked for time off on the same Sunday for some family matters.
I said no to both Staff B and C very sternly.
Week2
Staff A went on annual leave which I relunctantly approve (cuz my director said ok).
Staff B and C no action (Thank God!).
Week 3 (this weekend)
Staff A - This Sunday (ie tomorrow) is his off day. Today no action
Staff B - On annual leave today
Staff C (sms me today) - "I need to take one or two hours off in advance and will pay back next week (by working extra hours. Where got such policy one???) My clothes are drenched and I need to go home and change" I said no. Then she still defy and sms me saying that she will come in two hours late (full stop).
I sat down with one of the HODs one day for dinner and she suggested that I sack all three of them. She's been with the company and saw the problems brought by my present staff. As I just newly took over, I just told her that I would monitor them for a while before doing anything. -
You need to talk to the Human Resource first.
Have them monitor your staffs leaves & performance. Also to initiate a paper trail on their excuses and leaves.
There is various rules pertaining to MC during weekends or before or after Holidays. MC has to be certified. If its leave w/o notice. It can then be sackable and pay deducted. Or simply let them keep their job but their pay is deducted.
Might work better when you strike at their pockets.
Another look into your employee handbook as well as theirs...
Can't sack just like that. And there isnt much you can do as a supervisor on their private matters or their leave matters.
It might reflect bad on you if you got frustrated at that. Shows you to be w/o supervisory or people skills.
And once you spoke to HR, it shows you as monitoring your staffs and keep track as a supervisor. Which is good image anyway. -
I don't care what race they are, I'd just sack the whole lot. And then tell the new staff why their predecessers were sacked.Originally posted by Honeybunz:I really dun wish to mention their race, cuz I really really dun want to sound racist. And I also dun want this thread to become a racist discussion topic. But one colleague of mine belonging to that same race also suggested that I change this whole team and hire chinese staff only.
I really dunno why they are like that. Is it the race? I don't think so, cuz in my previous job, I also have non chinese staff and they were so hardworking. Is it their pay too low? But at least one of them told me that she needs the job & is very afraid to lose the job (but then, she is also one of them who chao geng). Or is it they are lowly educated? -
Is it in your power to set some rules for the staff?
eg. 1st. off day or time off on weekends should be submitted by end of thurs latest. Otherwise it would be counted as absent. Have the HOD send it out. I think your staffs are testing water. See if you are bulliable(is there such a word?) or not. Nowadays staff are very smart!
2nd. I am really not into staff smsing me about their status. I used to have staff smsing me about mc and off. After talking to my manager, we agree to make it mandatory for staffs to call in personnally after smsing us. Our excuse is so that i can know where are they in their project. This is one of the instances when my manager actually steps in. And results show that it is effective. (how i wish he would do the same for the other times). -
If this were the SAF they would've been charged and sentenced to SOL already. If any of them are guys you might want to check their records. Maybe they really kena before during NS.
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Agree. Today's one... I am going to inform HR to deduct two hours of her pay. Let her feel the pinch. I already said in the dept meeting that this action will be taken and there is no such thing as Off in advance (macham like asking for advance pay). In fact, I got no choice but to inform my director as well (whom I am reporting directly to). He said will issue her a warning letter. (That is so brilliant!)Originally posted by viciouskitty74:You need to talk to the Human Resource first.
Have them monitor your staffs leaves & performance. Also to initiate a paper trail on their excuses and leaves.
There is various rules pertaining to MC during weekends or before or after Holidays. MC has to be certified. If its leave w/o notice. It can then be sackable and pay deducted. Or simply let them keep their job but their pay is deducted.
Might work better when you strike at their pockets.
Another look into your employee handbook as well as theirs...
Can't sack just like that. And there isnt much you can do as a supervisor on their private matters or their leave matters.
It might reflect bad on you if you got frustrated at that. Shows you to be w/o supervisory or people skills.
And once you spoke to HR, it shows you as monitoring your staffs and keep track as a supervisor. Which is good image anyway. -
It's been said that "A bad workman quarrels with his tools". Since your staff can perform in their work, perhaps this should be good enough for the time being. If u want to get more outta them, perhaps you should try to build more rapport with them first (not the other way round). The next step should be some personal talk with each staff.
Another way to view this is that if they can perform in their job, you should be happy enough. Perhaps you are trying to micro-manage them.....?
Reasons your staff give could be substantiated to a certain degree mah....
Dun think any company grants leave, compensionate or otherwise, for pet falling sick. If sick, mc must be produced, mustn't it....? -
Ya, I set rules for them already. They treat my kindness as weakness. So on Tues, back to office, I am going to act on certain things liao. But from now till Tues morning I have to think clearly on what are the right things to do and not act on anything on impulse.Originally posted by crispylips:Is it in your power to set some rules for the staff?
eg. 1st. off day or time off on weekends should be submitted by end of thurs latest. Otherwise it would be counted as absent. Have the HOD send it out. I think your staffs are testing water. See if you are bulliable(is there such a word?) or not. Nowadays staff are very smart!
2nd. I am really not into staff smsing me about their status. I used to have staff smsing me about mc and off. After talking to my manager, we agree to make it mandatory for staffs to call in personnally after smsing us. Our excuse is so that i can know where are they in their project. This is one of the instances when my manager actually steps in. And results show that it is effective. (how i wish he would do the same for the other times).2nd. I am really not into staff smsing me about their status. I used to have staff smsing me about mc and off. After talking to my manager, we agree to make it mandatory for staffs to call in personnally after smsing us. Our excuse is so that i can know where are they in their project. This is one of the instances when my manager actually steps in. And results show that it is effective. (how i wish he would do the same for the other times).
I totally agree with that. Very good suggestion - thank you
I am going to set new rule... last min MC, urgent leave... call me and then call my superior (ie the dept's director). -
They have no problem producing MC, cuz we have company doc. But urgently leave... I already told them that urgent leave and no pay leave need doc. Annual leave subject to approval.Originally posted by :It's been said that "A bad workman quarrels with his tools". Since your staff can perform in their work, perhaps this should be good enough for the time being. If u want to get more outta them, perhaps you should try to build more rapport with them first (not the other way round). The next step should be some personal talk with each staff.
Another way to view this is that if they can perform in their job, you should be happy enough. Perhaps you are trying to micro-manage them.....?
Reasons your staff give could be substantiated to a certain degree mah....
Dun think any company grants leave, compensionate or otherwise, for pet falling sick. If sick, mc must be produced, mustn't it....?
The Staff C (in my eg above) was on no pay leave on Thurs & Fri even though we were short handed. She (she's a single parent) said that her mother who is the only person taking care of her child was going to Malaysia, so she really needed to take leave. She said she could even show documentation to prove that if required. I felt sorry for her, so I ok her leave. Then on Thurs, she sms and said her mother suddenly decided not to travel but she will still stick to Thurs & Fri leave. I was like .... WTF? But didn't say anything. Gave her the benefit of the doubt. But today, she showed pattern again. I didn't approve and she still went ahead and take off (when she doesn't have any off day to claim and she wanted to claim in advance... WTF!). This, I have already decided to deduct her pay already. Told her already, no such thing as Off in advance. Cuz if everyone in the dept show me this kind of pattern, nobody needs to come to work already. -
I have a dilemma as well,
i used to be on good terms with my subordinates. But because i need to enforce discipline to meet deadline, i started to talk to them only when it is about work. Other times, i ignore them completely and keep a stern face. Am i doing the correct thing? (my manager and senoirs continue to be the kind ones all along) Its not my personality. I don't feel quite right about this. I seem to be the only bad person. (oh yes, deadlines are met)
Is there any other way to enforce discipline? Similarly, i don't want them to treat my kindness as weakness.
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actuali as long as they finished the goals set out is the most impt thing... wat they do during work shouldnt be too particular unless is over... tis would only make the workman hate u even more n tis might lead to poor productivity... chao keng is only proven unless u caught them in the act else hv to give them benefit of a doubt... wat they did for nt coming to work is abit overboard so y not do a meeting n call everyone in n tell them properly n understand the problem... cannot everything do it the hard way... u also junior staff b4 so u should know wat is the formula...
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In some cases, you will really have to do that. My friend who is a nice girl, very outgoing, but when comes to work, she doesn't yak with her subordinates or buddy buddy with them. I guess she wanted her staff to take her seriously.Originally posted by crispylips:I have a dilemma as well,
i used to be on good terms with my subordinates. But because i need to enforce discipline to meet deadline, i started to talk to them only when it is about work. Other times, i ignore them completely and keep a stern face. Am i doing the correct thing? (my manager and senoirs continue to be the kind ones all along) Its not my personality. I don't feel quite right about this. I seem to be the only bad person. (oh yes, deadlines are met)
Is there any other way to enforce discipline? Similarly, i don't want them to treat my kindness as weakness.
I dunno much about your work. But if your work requires lots of team work and your staff are ok, then maybe you want to relax a bit with them. If your staff are like my staff, then I suggest you continue to be stern. I regret being understanding and now they blatantly taking advantage. Your job has got deadlines and stuff... so you cannot afford to have your staff take advantage or chao geng. -
do a meeting n set the record tat must meet deadlines, if dun meet then less freedom...Originally posted by crispylips:I have a dilemma as well,
i used to be on good terms with my subordinates. But because i need to enforce discipline to meet deadline, i started to talk to them only when it is about work. Other times, i ignore them completely and keep a stern face. Am i doing the correct thing? (my manager and senoirs continue to be the kind ones all along) Its not my personality. I don't feel quite right about this. I seem to be the only bad person. (oh yes, deadlines are met)
Is there any other way to enforce discipline? Similarly, i don't want them to treat my kindness as weakness. -
True, thats the only way to make them take you seriously.Originally posted by Honeybunz:In some cases, you will really have to do that. My friend who is a nice girl, very outgoing, but when comes to work, she doesn't yak with her subordinates or buddy buddy with them. I guess she wanted her staff to take her seriously.
Guess i have to keep doing what i am doing. Maybe tone it down a little bit so that i don't dread work so much. Thanks for the support!
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I forgot to mention...Originally posted by Honeybunz:let me give you example of their "patterns" or "actions" in the last few weeks...
Week1
Staff A (on Fri sms me. He was on off on Fri but fell sick & was given MC) - "I need to shift my off day from Fri to Sunday because I need to go for a blood test." (since when blood test laboratory works on Sunday one? and since when or which company allows staff to cancel off day/leave to take MC one?) After that, he insisted on not working on the Sunday by taking another MC.
Staff B (on a Sat sms me) - "Tomorrow (Sunday) I need to take two hours off (in advance as she has no more extra hours or Off in lieu to claim) to attend to some urgent matters" When I asked what is the matter, she only said it's family matters.
Staff C also asked for time off on the same Sunday for some family matters.
I said no to both Staff B and C very sternly.
Week2
Staff A went on annual leave which I relunctantly approve (cuz my director said ok).
Staff B and C no action (Thank God!).
Week 3 (this weekend)
Staff A - This Sunday (ie tomorrow) is his off day. Today no action
Staff B - On annual leave today
Staff C (sms me today) - "I need to take one or two hours off in advance and will pay back next week (by working extra hours. Where got such policy one???) My clothes are drenched and I need to go home and change" I said no. Then she still defy and sms me saying that she will come in two hours late (full stop).
I sat down with one of the HODs one day for dinner and she suggested that I sack all three of them. She's been with the company and saw the problems brought by my present staff. As I just newly took over, I just told her that I would monitor them for a while before doing anything.
On Sat morning, STaff C called me at 6.00 AM to tell me that she couldn't open her eyes and asked me to cover her. Though I was working on that Sat, I got other task to do. I told her to call another person to ask him/her to help cover. She refused to call,saying that she dun want to disturb other ppl. (And she wants to disturb me???) I was firm about it, told her to call her other colleagues to replace (I dun want to make it a precedent to help staff find replacement, whenever they call me last min for some funny story). Then after that, went to work. That staff was already working (her eyes can open leh!
)
Sat show pattern. Sun show pattern. I am not going to confirm her liao!
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In my workplace, freedom is already at a minimum. Any less freedom, and i will have to install metal bars around all the cubicles.Originally posted by BrUtUs:do a meeting n set the record tat must meet deadlines, if dun meet then less freedom...
I guess calling for meeting would be the last resort. I think i will request the manager to talk to the particular staff first. At least give the person some stress and my manager some pressure.(with the salary he is being paid, he should be the one with the pressure! not me)
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Continue to post here if you encounter any problem lor. Some of us may have better experience in dealing with certain things. We can all share and learnOriginally posted by crispylips:True, thats the only way to make them take you seriously.
Guess i have to keep doing what i am doing. Maybe tone it down a little bit so that i don't dread work so much. Thanks for the support! 
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like tat hv to understand their problem so can use the right medication lo...Originally posted by crispylips:In my workplace, freedom is already at a minimum. Any less freedom, and i will have to install metal bars around all the cubicles.
I guess calling for meeting would be the last resort. I think i will request the manager to talk to the particular staff first. At least give the person some stress and my manager some pressure.(with the salary he is being paid, he should be the one with the pressure! not me) -
Originally posted by Honeybunz:
couldn't open eyes? thats a first for me!
I forgot to mention...
On Sat morning, STaff C called me at 6.00 AM to tell me that she couldn't [b]open her eyes and asked me to cover her. Though I was working on that Sat, I got other task to do. I told her to call another person to ask him/her to help cover. She refused to call,saying that she dun want to disturb other ppl. (And she wants to disturb me???) I was firm about it, told her to call her other colleagues to replace (I dun want to make it a precedent to help staff find replacement, whenever they call me last min for some funny story). Then after that, went to work. That staff was already working (her eyes can open leh! )
Sat show pattern. Sun show pattern. I am not going to confirm her liao! [/b]
Also, i admire your work ethics to allow yourself to answer the call at 6AM. I wouldn't care if it is this early unless they call me at least 3 times. -
I am sure there will be more new "first time".Originally posted by crispylips:couldn't open eyes? thats a first for me!
Also, i admire your work ethics to allow yourself to answer the call at 6AM. I wouldn't care if it is this early unless they call me at least 3 times.
Next time they like that, probably I sure say "My pet fish drowning, but I still come to work. Why u must take urgently leave?" Sekali, my staff say "Yah hor... I plan to use this as my excuse for next Sunday!" -
Nah, don't think it's the race. There are a few bad apples in every basket.Originally posted by Honeybunz:All my life, I have always been thankful that I have very good staff under me, assisting me in every job that I go into. In my past few jobs, my ex staff and I were like a group of very good teammates, good friends and we help one another like a happy family. We were very united etc.
Recently, I went into this job and soon my boss made me in charge of a few staff. Gosh! These few staff are trouble makers. They can definitely work... I mean... in the first place, they went thru interviews and selection before they landed onto this job. I'm sure they have some good quality. But somehow, they have damn bad attitude. My predecessor already complaint like hell about these staff, threatening to sack them and stuff. When I took over, I face with the same problem. They damn chao geng! MC lah... mother sick, father sick, cat sick, pet sick... all kinds of stories and excuses not to come to work or claim a few hours off. They like to do this mostly on weekends, when they are fully aware (from the time they interview for this job) that they are required to work on Sat and Sun.
Every weekend, at least one of them will call me to give me some crap story.
I really dun wish to mention their race, cuz I really really dun want to sound racist. And I also dun want this thread to become a racist discussion topic. But one colleague of mine belonging to that same race also suggested that I change this whole team and hire chinese staff only.
I really dunno why they are like that. Is it the race? I don't think so, cuz in my previous job, I also have non chinese staff and they were so hardworking. Is it their pay too low? But at least one of them told me that she needs the job & is very afraid to lose the job (but then, she is also one of them who chao geng). Or is it they are lowly educated?
I know I have to sack at least 1 person from the team to make things move. Or maybe I dun need to do that. I also dunno. I am just too angry to think clearly right now. I just hope, by the time I return to office, I am calm enough to talk to them and not shoot off angry words from my mouth.
Your staff don't seem to take to regimentation that well. But how's their performance / output? If they get the job done, then it's not so bad right?
But if they get nothing done and they have a bad attitude, then I say, hit them where it hurts most - their wallet / pocket. -
Their performance is good... but only on some days. Eg. They will work extra hard from Mon to Fri, but Sat and Sun will start showing some problem. When comes to accuracy in their work -- it really depends on their mood (as far as two of them are concerned). Sometimes, quarrel with boyfriend, all the work produced will go haywire.Originally posted by sunniban:Nah, don't think it's the race. There are a few bad apples in every basket.
Your staff don't seem to take to regimentation that well. But how's their performance / output? If they get the job done, then it's not so bad right?
But if they get nothing done and they have a bad attitude, then I say, hit them where it hurts most - their wallet / pocket.