A discussion on Life and Marriage...
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Er, ya. No risk no gain, right
End of marriage is not the end of the world, as long as you can account to yourself.
Sounds like you have had many bad experiences. And people around you hold views about love & marriage that you don't agree with.
I will not judge how others live and think. If you post this same topic in Bar or Aunt Agony forum, I'm sure you will get very different replies. Sometimes it's about the company one is with.
But if it's any consolation, at least for the forumers who have replied you here in this thread, a portion of them are people who HAVE taken the risk, and found it worth-while still. Or believe in the chance of finding happiness with another person, while remaining realistic. So I hope you will find encouragement in that
Originally posted by Ferret:I certainly hope that the person I marry IS the one I wanna be with for the rest of my life.
Sadly, not all I talked to has this view.
Yeah I understood that marriages might break down and relationships can sometimes go beyond repair.
But knowing all these, despite a lack of faith, still go on hoping ? -
Incidentally, this morning, I ask SO: can you imagine being with me for the next 50 yrs.
Without blinking, he asked back: "Why not?".
And there you have it.... a shot of brilliant colours.
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Originally posted by InnoHippo:it's more than a SUMMARY ....... it's more like a editorial column
OK, all saying I verbose, so I sit here diam diam...
... for the next 30 secs nia!
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OK... 30 secs self-imposed embargo over!
Ferret, something you said, "Sigh. A shell is akin to a comfort zone. As long as I dont stay out, nothing can get to me. Yes, I do have a "shell" now. I've actually worked hard to have one. And its because I think I took way too much risks when I was younger and dumber."
Sometimes, quite obvious that you're running scared.
Remember though, you took risks that resulted in endings you probably regretted when you were 'younger and dumber'. I trust you have learnt from your lessons since, right? You're now 'older and wiser' so it's time to go out and put the lessons you've learnt into practice.
I look at my parents sometimes and wonder how they can stand each other for so long. They are quite different but intrinsically, their values are the same and most importantly, their commitment to each other is strong. To put it this way, divorce is not an option for them. There were times when one made the other very angry and there'll be some kind of silent war for a while, but in the end, one will eat humble pie and make amends to the other.
I think they keep an open mind as well. When dad first got an interest in singing, he'll belt out Hokkien songs that made me, my brother, and my mom all cringe and go "EEEEeeeeww!" and we'll hole ourselves up in the farthest bedroom, complaining and wishing he'd stop!!
Now, a few years later, mom slowly warmed up to his karaoke'ing habit and has even joined in! They now hold regular karaoke sessions at some karaoke place with their friends and they'll practice now and then at home. Mom would say dad sings well and dad would say mom is the karaoke 'Queen', I should go and watch her peform!
Thing is, you never know how things will turn out. Life is always a dynamic continuum. Sometimes, we'll continue being the person we are now, then suddenly, we experience something life-changing that makes us reconsider and change paths. When such things happen, hopefully, the partner by our side keeps an open mind about it and accepts the changed us and still decides to travel along the journey of life with us. Marriage is indeed a journey together and there'll be many many intersections where the two will stand at crossroads and one might want to turn left, the other right, and whether each other goes their separate way or if one compromises and decides to take the unknown new direction because they love and trust their spouse is what determines if a marriage will work or not.
The thing is, not to be afraid. Fear paralyses you. It prevents you from even trying things out in the first place. The best thing you can do for yourself, Ferret, is to understand yourself, know yourself well. Get to the point where you know that even if you are alone, you will survive and you can still find some kinda dark humour in the face of utter desolation and despair. If you can reach this stage, then you are ready for a marriage because it will mean that you are self-sufficient, you are not needy and dependant, but yet, you choose to accept another into your life because you want to, not because you need to. Having that someone in your life, not as a crutch or safety net, but because you love him and want him to be part of your life. Then, come what-may, brimestone or hellfire, you'd both WANT to stay together. -
OK, I talk too much! But one more thing...
When I was younger, I had ex's who shared the same strong views I had, and we quickly developed an "Us vs Them" kinda mentality.
Of course it felt great that I'm not alone, that someone else shares the same thoughts as I do that the rest of the world can't seem to understand, but that's actually quite a dangerous road to tread, come to think of it.
In any marriage, it's only healthy to have mutual friends. It's always good to have 'seniors' you can turn to for advice, should things take a rocky turn. A lot of divorce happens because the marriage hit some rocks, and both don't know what to do except harbour ill-feelings, contempt, etc. Sometimes, the couple wants to work things out, but they don't know how to. Times like these, it's good if the couple has some other couple to turn to for help. For all you know, the problem is not unique to you but something that's a 'normal' milestone for any married couple.
Sometimes, if a couple could have just waited things out, somewhere down the road, things just might have been ironed out. Sometimes, you just need to ride out the storms and you'll find calm and sunshine again. It doesn't storm all the time. The trick is to hang on tight when the storms hit and not decide to let go. -
i'll say it again, can you grow with one another... that is the main thing...
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Not sure if this is an encouragement or discouragement, my parents have been separated (not officially divorce yet) since I was 10 yo and I had a pretty tough childhood because of my parents' failed marriage. However, I am still willing to take a leap of faith by getting married. And instead of constantly fearing it'll end up like my parents', I try to learn from the mistakes my parents made.
Love & Happiness is a choice. Everything requires effort. Where there's a will, there's way.
By hiding yourself in your "shell" or "comfort zone" does not necessarily make you happy either. Because you can never experience a true relationship (including friendship) as no one gets to know the "real" you and there's no trust.
So Ferret, if you want to be happy in life (even before thinking about marriage), you need to step out of your "shell" first and learn to establish friendship or relationship with people and have faith in people.
We might get hurt sometimes but that's life. If we don't get hurt, we don't grow up and become strong. -
Bad server! Bad, bad server!!
Sorry, duplicate!
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.....Originally posted by viciouskitty74:You might now know...they may not be married to each other.
A splash of cold water. -
Thanks for sharingOriginally posted by the_don:6 pages is too much to read so i'll just post my view:
i dun undersand your question. trust? affair? those 2 words dun come together.
-------next-------
I assume you mean marriage as in signing of legal documents to annouce a man and woman as husband and wife.
I dun know why others do it and seriously it is none of my business.
My personal view on marriage is this:
Marriage is a promise to love, hold, in sickness, in health, in rich, in poor, to stay faithful and never part til death occurs. marriage document is a permanent, sure and legally binding declaration of commitment to ONE person for the rest of one's life. if signing a piece of paper makes you sweat, then you are not ready. dun even think abt it. i rather pple co-habitate then to get marriage already then head for divorce. divorce is not an option and do not plan to head that way either. If pple want to get married, they should not even consider divorce as a way out. marriage is sacred and holy. husband love your wives and wives respond to that love. this bond must be protected at all times and never be broken. if this bond is broken then divorce becomes an option (or murder, your choice). Example of breaking this bond is unfaithfulness, abuse and neglect. -
I just had an animated discussion about love and marriage with someone about to tie the knot.Originally posted by choco B:Er, ya. No risk no gain, right End of marriage is not the end of the world, as long as you can account to yourself.
Sounds like you have had many bad experiences. And people around you hold views about love & marriage that you don't agree with.
I will not judge how others live and think. If you post this same topic in Bar or Aunt Agony forum, I'm sure you will get very different replies. Sometimes it's about the company one is with.
But if it's any consolation, at least for the forumers who have replied you here in this thread, a portion of them are people who HAVE taken the risk, and found it worth-while still. Or believe in the chance of finding happiness with another person, while remaining realistic. So I hope you will find encouragement in that
He mentioned that he is marrying the girl not because he love her, but can "live" with her. (yes he likes, but not ...love)
In deference to my "50 years qns", he said yes, he can be with her for the next 50 years. And precisely because he didnt love her.
He said, Love fizzled out easily. And that "true love" is rare.
What makes a marriage works is the ability to "work" with each other. Not...love.
I guess I did understand where that is coming from. Even if I didnt like the answer.
Choco, you are right about the company I keep. I am very delighted to know that so many ppl here are willing to share their experiences with me. Thanks all. -
Fancy feathers~Originally posted by Wanda:Incidentally, this morning, I ask SO: can you imagine being with me for the next 50 yrs.
Without blinking, he asked back: "Why not?".
And there you have it.... a shot of brilliant colours.
Thats incredibly sweet
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hey ferret,
i dun know your story but i sense u need a hug so goes...
>>> HUGGIES FOR FERRET <<<
sometimes a tub of ben & jerrys and the company of good frens is the better than any soul searching
(that means, dun think so much ) -
sort of agree with his statement. if you love 100%, then there are no more room for improvement. furthermore, love is a muture feeling that both party feels, for the good and the mistake that each made.Originally posted by Ferret:I just had an animated discussion about love and marriage with someone about to tie the knot.
He mentioned that he is marrying the girl not because he love her, but can "live" with her. (yes he likes, but not ...love)
In deference to my "50 years qns", he said yes, he can be with her for the next 50 years. And precisely because he didnt love her.
He said, Love fizzled out easily. And that "true love" is rare.
What makes a marriage works is the ability to "work" with each other. Not...love.
I guess I did understand where that is coming from. Even if I didnt like the answer.
Choco, you are right about the company I keep. I am very delighted to know that so many ppl here are willing to share their experiences with me. Thanks all.
for the agony and the happiness each had.
keep some space for love to improve when the kids comes along, when the agony of sickness and hospitalisation(maybe child birth) and little simple things that comes along.
don't need to look for 100% as it cannot be "measureed". just feel and leave spaces for to fill up the gaps.
i'm glad ferret is growing up. -
Ferret, I was thinking about what you shared about your guy friend.
I think sometimes, we might have too romantic a notion about love. We seldom think of love in terms of a serious commitment towards each other but rather, we always think in terms of the nice stuff that are being done for each other.
I think some men are not so good at professing their love? But these men might be those who will quietly go about their commitment with utter devotion and dedication. You might not receive much fanfare and declaration of love, they won't be the 'showy', expressive type, but they will love you and won't think of leaving you ever.
Sadly, sometimes, these 'quiet' men are ignored for their more 'flambouyant' and suave brothers.
I guess I'm a tad off-topic but I was just thinking of the different aspects of love and how your friend, in his own way, is showing his love. -
Originally posted by Rhonda:
OK... 30 secs self-imposed embargo over!
Ferret, something you said, "Sigh. A shell is akin to a comfort zone. As long as I dont stay out, nothing can get to me. Yes, I do have a "shell" now. I've actually worked hard to have one. And its because I think I took way too much risks when I was younger and dumber."
Sometimes, quite obvious that you're running scared. Remember though, you took risks that resulted in endings you probably regretted when you were 'younger and dumber'. I trust you have learnt from your lessons since, right? You're now 'older and wiser' so it's time to go out and put the lessons you've learnt into practice.Actually all I've learnt is to avoid getting burnt. Which means going all the way out to avoid situations where I could be burnt.
I once told myself...Never to be bitter and cynical...
But it seems that as time passes, I have grown even more bitter and cynical. Time and time again, I have been disappointed and wounded. But I hope to be able to arrest it and if possible, correct myself. Because for one very simple reason, I believe life should only be spent in fun and happiness, anything else is an excuse for existence.
I look at my parents sometimes and wonder how they can stand each other for so long. They are quite different but intrinsically, their values are the same and most importantly, their commitment to each other is strong. To put it this way, divorce is not an option for them. There were times when one made the other very angry and there'll be some kind of silent war for a while, but in the end, one will eat humble pie and make amends to the other.
I think they keep an open mind as well. When dad first got an interest in singing, he'll belt out Hokkien songs that made me, my brother, and my mom all cringe and go "EEEEeeeeww!" and we'll hole ourselves up in the farthest bedroom, complaining and wishing he'd stop!!
Now, a few years later, mom slowly warmed up to his karaoke'ing habit and has even joined in! They now hold regular karaoke sessions at some karaoke place with their friends and they'll practice now and then at home. Mom would say dad sings well and dad would say mom is the karaoke 'Queen', I should go and watch her peform!
Some couples stay together for their children. During my discussion with my friend, he pointed out that life after marriage is no longer about you and him/her. You have got to think about your mutual friends, your extended family and of course, your children. He pointed out that even after love had fizzled out after marriage, people will stay together for the sake of their kids.
Yes it sounds all...so noble and self sacrificing. But...at the same time, oh so cruel
Thing is, you never know how things will turn out. Life is always a dynamic continuum. Sometimes, we'll continue being the person we are now, then suddenly, we experience something life-changing that makes us reconsider and change paths. When such things happen, hopefully, the partner by our side keeps an open mind about it and accepts the changed us and still decides to travel along the journey of life with us. Marriage is indeed a journey together and there'll be many many intersections where the two will stand at crossroads and one might want to turn left, the other right, and whether each other goes their separate way or if one compromises and decides to take the unknown new direction because they love and trust their spouse is what determines if a marriage will work or not.
so maybe finding such an "open minded" person could be the key ? I am so confused >.<"
The thing is, not to be afraid. Fear paralyses you. It prevents you from even trying things out in the first place. The best thing you can do for yourself, Ferret, is to understand yourself, know yourself well. Get to the point where you know that even if you are alone, you will survive and you can still find some kinda dark humour in the face of utter desolation and despair. If you can reach this stage, then you are ready for a marriage because it will mean that you are self-sufficient, you are not needy and dependant, but yet, you choose to accept another into your life because you want to, not because you need to. Having that someone in your life, not as a crutch or safety net, but because you love him and want him to be part of your life. Then, come what-may, brimestone or hellfire, you'd both WANT to stay together.
I am alone. I had survived. I have twisted sense of humour.
Sigh. I like the "part of your life". Sounds right...somehow. -
Originally posted by honeymouse:
Not sure if this is an encouragement or discouragement, my parents have been separated (not officially divorce yet) since I was 10 yo and I had a pretty tough childhood because of my parents' failed marriage. However, I am still willing to take a leap of faith by getting married. And instead of constantly fearing it'll end up like my parents', I try to learn from the mistakes my parents made.
Lemme sidetrack a little. When your parents divorced...can I know how you feel at that time ? How does it affect a child of ten ? And if you were older ? Say in your 20s ? Would you be as affected ?
Love & Happiness is a choice. Everything requires effort. Where there's a will, there's way.
By hiding yourself in your "shell" or "comfort zone" does not necessarily make you happy either. Because you can never experience a true relationship (including friendship) as no one gets to know the "real" you and there's no trust.
If no one knows, no one can hurt me right ?
So Ferret, if you want to be happy in life (even before thinking about marriage), you need to step out of your "shell" first and learn to establish friendship or relationship with people and have faith in people.
We might get hurt sometimes but that's life. If we don't get hurt, we don't grow up and become strong. [/b] -
Originally posted by the_don:
Thanks don, though I didnt really have a story....
hey ferret,
i dun know your story but i sense u need a hug so goes...
[b]>>> HUGGIES FOR FERRET <<<
sometimes a tub of ben & jerrys and the company of good frens is the better than any soul searching
(that means, dun think so much )[/b]
I started this thread to have a discussion on love and marriage...and i guess it somehow got personal.
Hugs are always appreciated~ Thanks~
-hugz-
Yay for chocochips~ -
Thanks SevenElevenOriginally posted by SevenEleven:sort of agree with his statement. if you love 100%, then there are no more room for improvement. furthermore, love is a muture feeling that both party feels, for the good and the mistake that each made.
for the agony and the happiness each had.
keep some space for love to improve when the kids comes along, when the agony of sickness and hospitalisation(maybe child birth) and little simple things that comes along.
don't need to look for 100% as it cannot be "measureed". just feel and leave spaces for to fill up the gaps.
i'm glad ferret is growing up.
Not so much as growing up... I think all these issues concerned everyone.
By having so many people participating in this discussion, even those who read but never post anything, I believe a lot of viewpoints are shared and new avenues of thinking are explored.
Ultimately, I believe we all can head towards some form of "enlightenment" here .... -
ferret, never give up hope. The important thing is to be cautious about giving out your heart, where it shouldnt be.Originally posted by Ferret:Thanks SevenEleven
Not so much as growing up... I think all these issues concerned everyone.
By having so many people participating in this discussion, even those who read but never post anything, I believe a lot of viewpoints are shared and new avenues of thinking are explored.
Ultimately, I believe we all can head towards some form of "enlightenment" here .... -
Ferret, sometimes looking back at the relationships in my life, I see all the love found... love lost, and I wondered how I could've survived all that, but somehow, with the help of a few loving friends, I did. There were certainly points in my life where I was so full of sorrow and despair, I felt that life was hopeless and the thought did occur to me to snuff it all out.
I can't say that I'm totally not cynical. I'd be lying if I said that I came out of all those broken relationships unscathed. A few of my close friends who know me well know how cynical I can get. Rose-tinted glasses? Smashed to smithereens donkey years ago!
I'm not proud of my cynicism, but it helps me not be so naive anymore. In a sense, it's sorta my own thwarted version of being 'worldly-wise'. I am definitely a more cautious person, and it will definitely take much more to convince me of the true intentions of a person who approaches me, and sometimes, I do wonder if anyone will hang around long enough to melt my heart.
I'm an introvert, I get uncomfortable in big groups, I'm cold and aloof until I am comfortable with someone, I make judgements too quickly sometimes, and I can be very extreme in my views. I'm also working on a few fear issues and breaking away from my comfort pod in Singapore has given me a chance to breathe and be free and try to stop fearing so many things. To make it worse, I have a sense of humour that can be quite dark and cryptic and like what one of my close friends said, not everyone might appreciate that. Makes me wonder if I can actually meet that someone who can see through all that muck and appreciate what little good I have in me.
Despite it all though, I somehow still harbour hope. I look around at the true friends that I am blessed with, and I realise that maybe, I'm not such a bad person afterall cause these people did stick with me! PHEW! In the meantime though, instead of sitting around waiting for someone to choose to be with me, I'm going about making plans as a single who wants to lead a fulfilling and fruitful life. I can't say it's easy, because you do have to handle the demons of loneliness and despair sometimes, but you have to keep going, keep chugging along, just keep up the momentum.
I've learnt tons from my failed relationships. I'm not sure though, that in the next relationship that comes along, I won't commit the same errors. Hell, I daren't even think that the next relationship might be THE relationship because I'm scared of dealing with the possibility that it might not be THE relationship AGAIN. I'm not even sure that I will ever end up being married even if I met the right one, because I am, to a large extent, commitmentphobic and not to forget, cynical!
I guess when it comes to life and relationships, we just do what we can. We might not end up living life the 'conventional' way. Hell, we might not even end up in a relationship / marriage in the 'conventional' sense, but we do what works for us, and for that significant other in our lives.
I may be cynical, etc, but I'm sure that amongst the tens of millions who are treading on Planet Earth, there'll be someone with a complementary sense of humour cryptic enough to see the humour in my grouchiness and cynicism and not be bogged down by it but instead see through my cynicism to realise that hey, I'm just like any other female, desiring love, but just a tad afraid at the same time.
Sometimes we trudge, sometimes we run, no matter what, we always move forward... -
Lemme sidetrack a little. When your parents divorced...can I know how you feel at that time ? How does it affect a child of ten ? And if you were older ? Say in your 20s ? Would you be as affected ?
As I said, my parents never divorced, only separated.
Anyway, how would you feel if you grow up seeing your parents quarreled all the time and my dad even bashed my mum up. All these just because of another woman.
As far as I know, he had the woman even before I was born. My dad has always been a stranger to me so it really made no difference if that happened when I was 10 or when I was 20.
What affected me more is the trauma of seeing my dad hurt my mum, and I got yelled at by my dad whenever he wasn't in a good mood. It took me a long long time to overcome the fear of my dad and men generally.
It wasn't easy but I chose to deal with it because I don't want to be unhappy for the rest of my life because of things that happened to me in the childhood.
So, you have a choice. You can choose to be bitter and unhappy because of the past or simply deal with it, move on and be happy. -
All said. Never stop loving