Night Owl Chatterboxes - Part LIII
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the rich is getting richer, and the poor is getting poorer.
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time to go sleep now
goodnight everyone
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Originally posted by elindra:
Seriously Fatum, as an employer do you want to keep hiring and training because people just walk out on you?
And we are not even talking about freezer temperatures but chiller temperature. They have warm clothing and how dangerous is stickering stickers on a small retail pack of pork? Ya you might catch a cold. Same like you walk out of a cold office to our hot weather outside and you might catch a cold.
Sure if you want higher pay, your output have to make up for it too. You cannot just pay more because that fella is a Singaporean but his effeciency is just not there.
Well for higher pay you would expect better output too right?
Why are the Americans able to have high pay and yet remain so competitive?
That's because they are very efficient and fast workers.
In a busy resturant you can see like maybe only 1 waitress and she takes orders and get the bills etc and does it with a smile. In the cutting plants, you will be amazed at how they work and the workers there are all Americans.
On their fields, 1 man can harvest acres and acres of land.
Speaking from the employer point of view, the typical blue collar worker here, expects to be treated nice with light work load because he is Singaporean and most of the time they bo chup and just tell you 'Dunno la' so they don't have to do it.
Sure the pay for them can go up, but at the same time one has to be realistic that attitudes have to change and seriously a lot of Singaporeans need to realise that our world is becoming borderless now.
Anyway the Chinese are not just invading Singapore. They are invading everywhere. Even in Canada, for Maple Leaf Foods, with their major restructuring, most of the traders I deal with now are PRC and mind you they are very sharp traders and write better English than most Singaporeans in SgF
show them the high pay, and people will follow, pay them a good wage and their output will increase ... why are people willing to work and slave long hours, like my cousin, as an investment banker, being on call 24/7, getting maybe 3-4 hours of sleep a night, getting your work faxed to you if you call in sick ! .... cos they are being paid 800k US a year .....
if you pay peanuts in Singapore, what kind of locals would you get, but the truly lazy and unambitious ? .....
imagine, pinky, if you're being paid 1/4 of your current earnings, would you still be putting in the long hours you're putting in now, and putting up with ham murderer besides ? ...
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yeah i should sleep too, the flu bug hit me twice already in less then a week, but containing it with medication. got a damn event to attend to tmr.grrrh..
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Originally posted by Fatum:
it's not just about the commodities prices alone .... what's happening is that people are increasingly unable to afford the food being sold because their wages have not kept up with inflation ! ....
i think it's seriously screwed up when the start telling singaporeans to switch to frozen meat and what not ... they are not really addressing the issue there ... it's basically telling people to make do with less ... when they should be looking at ways for people to be able to afford more ...
And if you are talking about wages not keeping up with inflation, it is not a problem here alone. That is also a world wide problem.As for looking at ways for people to afford more, sure there are ways but in the end it is a balance of remaining competitive globally and raising the wages of people.
And as in any country, the poor are the ones that suffer the most or falter behind.
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gd nite bear & sweet dreams
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Originally posted by the Bear:
dude.. the same thing is happening everywhere in the world right now..
the term is the "New Hungry"
you can blame the speculators actually.. and the idiots who talk biofuels..
both are driving commodity prices sky high..
what I'm saying is, we have to tackle rising food prices from another angle ....
why is this impacting Singapore much more than other "developed" countries ? .... true, this is a global thing, but why is the other "affluent" countries much more able to weather this trend ? ...
because our wages have not kept up with inflation ..... we, especially the lower end of our society, can't tighten our belts much further cos we are already at the last notch ! ....
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Originally posted by elindra:
And if you are talking about wages not keeping up with inflation, it is not a problem here alone. That is also a world wide problem.As for looking at ways for people to afford more, sure there are ways but in the end it is a balance of remaining competitive globally and raising the wages of people.
And as in any country, the poor are the ones that suffer the most or falter behind.
Its a problem that can be solved, because we're a small nation, but no one is willing to make that step forward.
The petroleum companies are a good example, many people are dying to get inside there, their profits are so high, and they pay slightly above market rate. Now if only more profitable companies will follow suit, the rest will have to keep up.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
Pls, we're not to say because of tis we're going to say do price controlIt has failed in Malaysia terribly... Because now the govt has to be accountable for these commodity price increase! Because of this, it became partly a reason for BN's lost other than the police or flood or corruption
I never mentioned anything about price control dude, that's stupid .....
I'm taking about tackling wage deflation to combat price inflation ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
what I'm saying is, we have to tackle rising food prices from another angle ....
why is this impacting Singapore much more than other "developed" countries ? .... true, this is a global thing, but why is the other "affluent" countries much more able to weather this trend ? ...
because our wages have not kept up with inflation ..... we, especially the lower end of our society, can't tighten our belts much further cos we are already at the last notch ! ....
so we're going to fixed prices like wat the BN did and ppl got discontened? at the same time, dun forget, the tax rates in Malaysia is higher than us
are you sure? PRC is also severly affected by inflation, recent figures came out 9%
inflation does not mean rise in wages... when the inflation is caused by food prices... my qn is, wat does food price has to do w/ wages?
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Like i was telling my father who said i had it good when the SAF pays me 400/month.
Back in his days when he was paid 90, i said that he could probably buy more plates of Chicken rice or Wanton Noodles then i could now with 400.
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Originally posted by elindra:
And if you are talking about wages not keeping up with inflation, it is not a problem here alone. That is also a world wide problem.As for looking at ways for people to afford more, sure there are ways but in the end it is a balance of remaining competitive globally and raising the wages of people.
And as in any country, the poor are the ones that suffer the most or falter behind.
no ... but had wages kept up with inflation, the impact of rising prices wouldn't be as bad now ....
I realized that this "staying competitive" is really just an excuse to get the people to keep on swallowing shit while robbing them blind ....
yes, we can easily fall behind, yes, we have to remain competitive, but keeping wages low is simply not the way anymore .... why is japan, the land of high wages and high costs, still able to remain competitive ? ....
I tell you really why ... cos our economy is fundamentally based along two driving force ... 1. huge foreign corporations, 2. large goverment linked companies .... that makes us unresponsive ... but nevermind, if I expand on this it'll become a thesis ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
what I'm saying is, we have to tackle rising food prices from another angle ....
why is this impacting Singapore much more than other "developed" countries ? .... true, this is a global thing, but why is the other "affluent" countries much more able to weather this trend ? ...
because our wages have not kept up with inflation ..... we, especially the lower end of our society, can't tighten our belts much further cos we are already at the last notch ! ....
I have to say that the other "developed" countries have their own agriculture
They are the producers and exporters of these commodities and every year the Government have subsidies handed out to the farmers so in a way, local prices are pretty much controlled in a way.
And with any exporting country, export prices have to be better before they see the need to export instead of selling to the local market.
Originally posted by Fatum:show them the high pay, and people will follow, pay them a good wage and their output will increase ... why are people willing to work and slave long hours, like my cousin, as an investment banker, being on call 24/7, getting maybe 3-4 hours of sleep a night, getting your work faxed to you if you call in sick ! .... cos they are being paid 800k US a year .....
if you pay peanuts in Singapore, what kind of locals would you get, but the truly lazy and unambitious ? .....
imagine, pinky, if you're being paid 1/4 of your current earnings, would you still be putting in the long hours you're putting in now, and putting up with ham murderer besides ? ...
Put it this way.
I tried hiring before. I tell ya these days the Employer don't do the interviewing but the Employee. Before you ask them what they can do, they want you to tell them what you can give them. I think there is seriously something wrong here.
I don't think my pay is high, but I think it is fair for what I am doing and that my boss increases my pay without me asking. I also like the flexibility of my job and that basically I can do anything I like (without being irresponsible ) and without having to go through layers of management. If I were to leave my company right now, I can get a higher paid job but I'm happy where I am.
If he were to cut my pay to 1/4 of what I'm getting I don't even think he can get a qualified PRC to do it
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there are things we've to learn w/ it
it's also crazy to say raise wages because ppl now are getting harder to live on... the biz are also affected by rising operation cost due to oil
Japan? it's neighbours are slowly catching up, esp Korea... and actually esp the automobile ind, it's alrdy been outsourced to PRC, India & Thailand
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Originally posted by sbst275:
so we're going to fixed prices like wat the BN did and ppl got discontened? at the same time, dun forget, the tax rates in Malaysia is higher than us
are you sure? PRC is also severly affected by inflation, recent figures came out 9%
inflation does not mean rise in wages... when the inflation is caused by food prices... my qn is, wat does food price has to do w/ wages?
dude ... for the second time, i never said anything about price controls ... I studied enough economics to know it doesn't work ....
but I read enough political economy to know that if wages doesn't keep up with food prices (read: inflation) ... then there's bound to be trouble ....
you're exactly right in saying that inflation does not mean a rise in wages, that's what happening in Singapore right now ... wages are not keeping up ... if it had, the way wages have kept up with inflation in other developed countries, the common man on the street wouldn't be feeling so much of a pinch now ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
no ... but had wages kept up with inflation, the impact of rising prices wouldn't be as bad now ....
I realized that this "staying competitive" is really just an excuse to get the people to keep on swallowing shit while robbing them blind ....
yes, we can easily fall behind, yes, we have to remain competitive, but keeping wages low is simply not the way anymore .... why is japan, the land of high wages and high costs, still able to remain competitive ? ....
I tell you really why ... cos our economy is fundamentally based along two driving force ... 1. huge foreign corporations, 2. large goverment linked companies .... that makes us unresponsive ... but nevermind, if I expand on this it'll become a thesis ....
Japan
1. They sell their soul to their company and yes they do drop dead from work
2. Their work ethics seriously defer from ours by miles apart
3. Precision, Precision, Precision. They do it right the first time. Zero Defects. Over here, some ppl do the work over and over again and never get it right and become worse
4. They are extremely cohesive and work as one. Overhere. Hahahaha. It is a miracle if people don't fight for who gets more glory.
But actually these days it is not quite so true in Japan too with all the Brazilian FTs going in for the lower skilled jobs
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Originally posted by elindra:
Put it this way.
I tried hiring before. I tell ya these days the Employer don't do the interviewing but the Employee. Before you ask them what they can do, they want you to tell them what you can give them. I think there is seriously something wrong here.
I don't think my pay is high, but I think it is fair for what I am doing and that my boss increases my pay without me asking. I also like the flexibility of my job and that basically I can do anything I like (without being irresponsible ) and without having to go through layers of management. If I were to leave my company right now, I can get a higher paid job but I'm happy where I am.
If he were to cut my pay to 1/4 of what I'm getting I don't even think he can get a qualified PRC to do it
that last sentence is exactly right ... we all have to draw a line somewhere ... say if your wages becomes 1/3, or half of what it is right now ... can you live on that ? .... HDB payments, savings, living expenses, etc ? .... maybe you can't ... but some PRC chap would happily snap it up .... cos he'll slave here for 5 years and return home a laird .....
that's my point ... if we simply open our ass wide and take in all and sundry .... we'll be screwed .... and we'll just talking about the economics aspects here ....
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Well, it's a sad fact that lots of Singaporeans have a particular aversion to the phrase 'shift work'.
My own younger sister has said that she wouldn't go for it.... even though she hasn't found a job for many months after she graduated.
Aiyoh.... it may not be perfect, but at least it's still a job. It's not as though you are working for free. Barring my vacation internship, every single vacation job I ever had (7 Eleven, Paramount Hotel, Pan Pacific Hotel, Sentosa Express) involved shift work.
It's tiring, and the hours are odd, but at least it's down-to-earth honest work.
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Originally posted by elindra:
Japan
1. They sell their soul to their company and yes they do drop dead from work
2. Their work ethics seriously defer from ours by miles apart
3. Precision, Precision, Precision. They do it right the first time. Zero Defects. Over here, some ppl do the work over and over again and never get it right and become worse
4. They are extremely cohesive and work as one. Overhere. Hahahaha. It is a miracle if people don't fight for who gets more glory.
But actually these days it is not quite so true in Japan too with all the Brazilian FTs going in for the lower skilled jobs
again .... the question is ... if you're being paid peanuts, would you be willing to work as hard as before ?. ... and mind you ... this peanut is relative .... it may be a big peanut to a wretched and hungry foreigner ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
dude ... for the second time, i never said anything about price controls ... I studied enough economics to know it doesn't work ....
but I read enough political economy to know that if wages doesn't keep up with food prices (read: inflation) ... then there's bound to be trouble ....
you're exactly right in saying that inflation does not mean a rise in wages, that's what happening in Singapore right now ... wages are not keeping up ... if it had, the way wages have kept up with inflation in other developed countries, the common man on the street wouldn't be feeling so much of a pinch now ....
so wat are you suggesting to get the wages to go up and make the biz and man on the street all happy?
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Actually I think the wages not keeping up are not the middle income and above but the poor, which is why they are having handouts again.
I consider myself middle income and my pay did rise accordingly to inflation
Heck even Ham Murderer's pay did. Btw for a delivery man he is extremely well-paid ok. For his job. He is getting above 2k and seriously I don't mind doing his job with the pay he is getting. I don't see him performing anyway if according to what you said about working for what you are paid for.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
again .... the question is ... if you're being paid peanuts, would you be willing to work as hard as before ?. ... and mind you ... this peanut is relative .... it may be a big peanut to a wretched and hungry foreigner ....
Ok HM just delivers light cartons of Maple Syrup and goes around the stores to take orders ok
He is paid 2.3k per month for his job
Very highly paid I think and I don't see him working harder.
And I do happen to know that people doing the same job as him is paid like 1k - 1.5k per month
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Originally posted by sbst275:
so wat are you suggesting to get the wages to go up and make the biz and man on the street all happy?
easy ... vote for the opposition in the next election .....
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And to answer your question
If I'm down and out and hungry I would just take any bloody job and not complain and pick and choose.
Btw I used to work shift and I'm not sure what is the big deal about shift work that people hate
A lot of shift work pays decently. I had done my fair share of those as a student and I was just part time
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Originally posted by Fatum:
easy ... vote for the opposition in the next election .....
is the opp going to change? our spoiled workers attitude?time dun wait for ppl... if you wanna rant abt shift work bla bla bla, ppl will get foreign workers... and if the opp stops tis, I tell you, SBS bus freq would end up 60 mins one I tell you