Night Owl Chatterboxes - Part LV
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
I speak English at home, but when mom speaks in dialect, it's time to disappear from her sight!
There's nothing like cursing in Hokkien! Point is, you can be fluent in Mandarin and other dialects, and still be good in English.
for me it's difficult to go fluent in englishdunno why no matter how I tried
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
Got! KPKB!!
And our sarong party girls are... good at their 'PR skills'!
Unfortunately, you're on the money with the first one and it's embarrassing. The latter is so passe now.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
Well, you read about 'Shakespeare in Chav-speak' a few days ago...
Yes, and if you think that it's acceptable for us to be proud of our current fluency levels in the English language, then fine, there shall never be any improvements.
I just feel that whilst our teachers might not be the best, the English syllabus in the Primary and Secondary schools are actually pretty good and the basics of grammar are taught very well. Given that opportunity, it's just sad to see so many waste their chances.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
Unfortunately, you're on the money with the first one and it's embarrassing. The latter is so passe now.
Well then, what's the latest buzzword for those group of girls these days?
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See, like when we talk about the youths in here who write well, I can only think of you and fudgie. For a country that has embraced English as its first language, THAT is sad.
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
If I pick the homeless / school dropout / drug addicts (not the white-collar casual drug abuser) / alcoholic here, their English grammar is crap too.
Thing is, compare an apple with an apple, ie. compare school-going youths of the same age group with each other.
I think the focus of our societies are fundamentally different ....
oriental societies place emphasis on situational context, the implicit, the unspoken, all have meanings .... we learn to pick up on those .... thus we are not very expressive verbally ....
occidental societyes on the other hand, are more ... "overt" ? ... they are heavily onto the spoken and written word .. because this is their primary form of communication ....
but the koreans and the taiwanese and the PRCs, when they learn english, they can approach it with vigor cos it's something completely new and alien to them ... they have a lot less to unlearn ... they don't have to unlean the habits of a lifetime of singlish .... I suppose that's why they can make much better progress ....
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is there any reprieve for those that choose not to write well?
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Tell you something funny... I know Ah Beng's fate was sealed when he declared loudly to my friend that "I used to teached tuition!"
I was cringing in my seat and I wanted to run my fingernails across the chalkboard out of sheer frustration. And I still remember to this day, I kinda froze and he sensed the change in my demeanour and I just wanted to yell at him, "'To' + Infinitive!!" -
Originally posted by Rhonda:
We can talk till the cows come home, and discuss about the Why's, but that won't improve the situation one bit.
It's time for a government-mandated "Speak Good English" campaign!But, to broaden its appeal and maximize participation, it should be rebranded as a "Speak Decent English" campaign this time.
And if that fails to produce the desired results, we can settle for a "Speak Passable English" campaign.
And if that doesn't work, we've hit rock bottom and will have to implement the "Just Speak Anything Resembling English, Lah!" campaign....
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Originally posted by stellazio:
is there any reprieve for those that choose not to write well?
It's your personal choice, but just don't do it when the world is watching... quite sia suay!
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actually write still able to do so
speaking the language, nope
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I'm not saying that it's acceptable. It irritates me too when they expect me to dumb down my standard of English, and claim that Singlish is something to be proud of. It's not even anything like Cockney or Geordie.
SPGs are so yesterday, so how about local lads with white girls? ;)
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Originally posted by Fatum:
I think the focus of our societies are fundamentally different ....
oriental societies place emphasis on situational context, the implicit, the unspoken, all have meanings .... we learn to pick up on those .... thus we are not very expressive verbally ....
occidental societyes on the other hand, are more ... "overt" ? ... they are heavily onto the spoken and written word .. because this is their primary form of communication ....
but the koreans and the taiwanese and the PRCs, when they learn english, they can approach it with vigor cos it's something completely new and alien to them ... they have a lot less to unlearn ... they don't have to unlean the habits of a lifetime of singlish .... I suppose that's why they can make much better progress ....
You can use high-sounding terminologies, but at the end of the day, it's just a hunger to learn vs sloth and taking things for granted.
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Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:
It's time for a government-mandated "Speak Good English" campaign!But, to broaden its appeal and maximize participation, it should be rebranded as a "Speak Decent English" campaign this time.
And if that fails to produce the desired results, we can settle for a "Speak Passable English" campaign.
And if that doesn't work, we've hit rock bottom and will have to implement the "Just Speak Anything Resembling English, Lah!" campaign....
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
I'm not saying that it's acceptable. It irritates me too when they expect me to dumb down my standard of English, and claim that Singlish is something to be proud of. It's not even anything like Cockney or Geordie.
SPGs are so yesterday, so how about local lads with white girls? ;)
SPGs are certainly not yesterday ..... a walk around town will assure you of that ....
reverse pinkerton couples ? .... haven't seen enough of those around ....
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
It's your personal choice, but just don't do it when the world is watching... quite sia suay!
i actually think its alright, as long as you know when and where to use it like in the forums for example..
only thing is, some people gets so used to typing in singlish, that it actually spills over into their work life..and thats the hilarious part, cause you know that they're fully capable of writing in proper English.
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You know, I still have a bit of nationalist pride in me, and when I hear Aussies telling me that they've been to Singapore, and I don't speak like 'them' because they can at least understand my English whilst they couldn't quite understand what most Singaporeans were trying to say, that's sad.
I just wish we can do better, and with the resources we enjoy, we ought to be able to do better. But, do we want to do better? You hear a lot of excuses, a lot of justifications, but you don't hear anyone saying, "OK, there's a problem! Let's roll up our sleeves and improve the situation!" Instead, you hear a stubborn insistance and an almost foolish and misplaced pride, almost, on continuing on the existing merry ways.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
SPGs are certainly not yesterday ..... a walk around town will assure you of that ....
reverse pinkerton couples ? .... haven't seen enough of those around ....
Pinkerton is an '80's catchphrase; SPG's belong to the '90's; so what about the here and now? What do we call them these days?
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
Pinkerton is an '80's catchphrase; SPG's belong to the '90's; so what about the here and now? What do we call them these days?
I dunno .... depends on the "caliber" of both parties ? ....
it's disgusting when you see flower-shirted, beer gutted and heavily tattooed ang mohs pawing power-suited singkie girls here ..... you sometimes have to ask yourself ... surely she can do better than this ? ...
I hate to generalize,really, but when you hear the jarring, fake whiney accents, it's hard not to wonder, if it's really about the skin colour or the passport, or just a simple craving for the exotic .....
or maybe it's cos I've seen enough white trash types in ang moh countries to tell which are the "worthy" ones and which are the bangkok exiles ? ....
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Some of the more common (and annoying) English faux pas I've repeatedly encountered in writings in this country:
Definitely <-> Definately
Your <-> You're
Their <-> They're
Sight <-> Site
Among others...
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You know, being here, I've been taught quite a few humbling lessons.
Back on home turf, because we are natives, we feel that we are 'the best'. We treat all other non-Caucasian foreign workers as somehow inferior to ourselves. We belittle the PRC's and the Filipinos, to name just two.
However, over here, I've come to realise that the PRC's and Filipinos actually do very well. And because I'm now on level-standing with them, I realise how arrogant Singaporeans are. We think we're 'better' but in actual fact, we aren't. We're just little spoilt kings and queens on our home turf. Step out of safe territory, and it's a free-for-all, may the better man win.
The one saving grace we have, is our mastery of the language. I can differentiate between the different Asian accents and I feel a sense of pride when I hear Singaporeans talk in that familiar accent, but in good English. I feel that in a way, we are little ambassadors for our own country once we step out onto foreign turf. And if we can speak English well at the very least, it gives foreigners a good impression of Singapore to start with.
This discussion is not aimed at insulting anyone but rather, it stems from a pride of being a Singaporean and not wanting to lose out to other Asian nationalities. I never knew I'd be so proud of being a Singaporean until I moved away from home to carve a niche for myself here.
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In that case, I don't think we should even entertain the compromise of trying to get people to switch between Singlish and standard English effectively.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
I dunno .... depends on the "caliber" of both parties ? ....
it's disgusting when you see flower-shirted, beer gutted and heavily tattooed ang mohs pawing power-suited singkie girls here ..... you sometimes have to ask yourself ... surely she can do better than this ? ...
I hate to generalize,really, but when you hear the jarring, fake whiney accents, it's hard not to wonder, if it's really about the skin colour or the passport, or just a simple craving for the exotic .....
or maybe it's cos I've seen enough white trash types in ang moh countries to tell which are the "worthy" ones and which are the bangkok exiles ? ....
I know what you mean. It IS disgusting to witness.
Those beerguts and tattooed nuts have made passes at me but you can tell from a mile away that this lassie ain't interested!
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well ... when we step out overseas ....
we lose our nationality .... half the world still can't place singapore on the map ....
but we are suddenly reminded of our ethnicity ....
we cease to be singaporeans ...
but get lumped under the general terms of indians, chinese, indonesians .... etc ...
I became "just another damm chink" .....
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
In that case, I don't think we should even entertain the compromise of trying to get people to switch between Singlish and standard English effectively.
Har? Sorry, I don't get you.
Anyways, I'm not asking for Singlish to be abolished altogether. It's our own unique colloquail language that identifies us as Singaporeans. However, there's a time and place for everything, and fluent Singlish will and should never replace standard English.
I'm not saying we should all go around with fake accents. Just speak and write grammatically correct English.