Night Owl Chatterboxes - Part LV
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
I know what you mean. It IS disgusting to witness.
Those beerguts and tattooed nuts have made passes at me but you can tell from a mile away that this lassie ain't interested!
I've seen other young local lasses with young, fit white lads as well, and their numbers are fast catching up. Or would you call the guys 'beach bums'?
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its easier said then done, that is trying to stamp out lousy English. no doubt, Singapore has adopted English as her main language, the majority of families still do not practice English as their "home language". Singaporeans grows up being exposed to different types of languages and dialects, and while dialects are slowly dying out, the problem won't be solved, until majority of the families practice speaking English at home, instead of mandarin,hokkien etc.. and that to me is the reason why Singlish was born.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
I've seen other young local lasses with young, fit white lads as well, and their numbers are fast catching up. Or would you call the guys 'beach bums'?
we will call em foreign talents..
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Originally posted by Fatum:
well ... when we step out overseas ....
we lose our nationality .... half the world still can't place singapore on the map ....
but we are suddenly reminded of our ethnicity ....
we cease to be singaporeans ...
but get lumped under the general terms of indians, chinese, indonesians .... etc ...
I became "just another damm chink" .....
A few Aussies do that too.
However, because there are so many ethnicities here, there are Aussies who understand that just because you're yellow-skinned does not mean you are from Vietnam or China.
Often, my patients can't guess where I'm from but a few did ask if I trained in the States. My new boss told me once, "Don't take this wrongly, but your accent... you have a bit of American in your accent." and then I laughed and had to explain how I spent seven years working with Americans in the corporate world before becoming a nurse and if you work with Americans, you start to realise that they aren't good at adapting to other accents, but rather, you will have to kinda 'switch' to their accent for them to comprehend you. Hell, my American friends couldn't understand a word of English in the movie, "The Full Monty", a UK production. They are THAT bad!
I had to tell them what was happening in the movie! They only understand their own accent, innit, MG? -
Originally posted by Rhonda:
Har? Sorry, I don't get you.
Anyways, I'm not asking for Singlish to be abolished altogether. It's our own unique colloquail language that identifies us as Singaporeans. However, there's a time and place for everything, and fluent Singlish will and should never replace standard English.
I'm not saying we should all go around with fake accents. Just speak and write grammatically correct English.
I beg to differ. Unless we let go of Singlish completely, we'll never be rid of the scourge of poor English. We shouldn't even expect any dumbing down of the language in any situation. And, yes, it can be done without the phoney accents.
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Originally posted by stellazio:
its easier said then done, that is trying to stamp out lousy English. no doubt, Singapore has adopted English as her main language, the majority of families still do not practice English as their "home language". Singaporeans grows up being exposed to different types of languages and dialects, and while dialects are slowly dying out, the problem won't be solved, until majority of the families practice speaking English at home, instead of mandarin,hokkien etc.. and that to me is the reason why Singlish was born.
Easy. Just pay attention during English classes in school.
Just because you come from a Malay-speaking, Mandarin-speaking or Tamil-speaking family doesn't mean you can't have good English language skills.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
well ... when we step out overseas ....
we lose our nationality .... half the world still can't place singapore on the map ....
but we are suddenly reminded of our ethnicity ....
we cease to be singaporeans ...
but get lumped under the general terms of indians, chinese, indonesians .... etc ...
I became "just another damm chink" .....
And because of those clowns who are making trouble wherever the Olympic torch goes, our travelling experiences may become less pleasant than before.
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
Har? Sorry, I don't get you.
Anyways, I'm not asking for Singlish to be abolished altogether. It's our own unique colloquail language that identifies us as Singaporeans. However, there's a time and place for everything, and fluent Singlish will and should never replace standard English.
I'm not saying we should all go around with fake accents. Just speak and write grammatically correct English.
I find channel 5 very entertaining in this regard ....
they have actors and actresses and newscasters all speaking with a gamut of different accents
you know why phua chu kang was so successful ? ... cos there were no phoney accents in there ... (most of the time) ....
but when singaporeans speak good english, it often comes out sounded contrived .... cos we can never run away from trying to affect an accent ....
I remember watching our ministar for hobbit affairs WKS on CBC channel ... being interviewed for some terrorist crap ... you can see that he was trying hard ... not to slang ....
I cringed ...
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
I beg to differ. Unless we let go of Singlish completely, we'll never be rid of the scourge of poor English. We shouldn't even expect any dumbing down of the language in any situation. And, yes, it can be done without the phoney accents.
Hmm... I'm not so sure of that because there are a few of us in here who are fluent in both Singlish AND standard English.
I find it amusing when my UK colleague asks me to spell out words for her when she writes.
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I agree w/ KB over getting rid of Snglish
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
Easy. Just pay attention during English classes in school.
Just because you come from a Malay-speaking, Mandarin-speaking or Tamil-speaking family doesn't mean you can't have good English language skills.
Its not enough, because if you notice our youths, they tend to mix around with their own kind.. the mandarin speaking will stick together, the english speaking ones etc.
but the point is that, due to the wide usage of other languages and dialects, that is the very reason why Singlish is around and thriving. and i agree with what KB said bout having the need to abolish Singlish totally before the majority of Singaporeans can start speaking and writing good English.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
And because of those clowns who are making trouble wherever the Olympic torch goes, our travelling experiences may become less pleasant than before.
oh that's just what you see on TV ...
but it's the little everyday incidents that'll make the difference ...
the tokyo drift driver ... the queue jumper ... the quarrelsome customer at the resturant ... at the supermarket ... the exams cheat .... the students who goes around asking for assignments to copy ....
the list goes on ....
mark my words ... the day may very well come where being a chinese will get you spat on in the streets of certain countries ... and the worst part is ... I'm not sure I can fault them for it ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
I find channel 5 very entertaining in this regard ....
they have actors and actresses and newscasters all speaking with a gamut of different accents
you know why phua chu kang was so successful ? ... cos there were no phoney accents in there ... (most of the time) ....
but when singaporeans speak good english, it often comes out sounded contrived .... cos we can never run away from trying to affect an accent ....
I remember watching our ministar for hobbit affairs WKS on CBC channel ... being interviewed for some terrorist crap ... you can see that he was trying hard ... not to slang ....
I cringed ...
Face it... as long as it is not our native language, there will be an accent.
I cringe when I hear certain accents here, including our easily-distinguishable Singapore accent. And yes, if you try too hard, it all comes out fake.
I don't care much about accents, as long as it's crisp, clear, and the grammar is good. No horrible sins like "I goes..." or "She runned...".
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
Easy. Just pay attention during English classes in school.
Just because you come from a Malay-speaking, Mandarin-speaking or Tamil-speaking family doesn't mean you can't have good English language skills.
And one has to conscientiously practise speaking proper English. To me, there's no excuse for using Singlish - use English/Mandarin/etc exclusively, other than to translate a word or term, or don't even talk.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
oh that's just what you see on TV ...
but it's the little everyday incidents that'll make the difference ...
the tokyo drift driver ... the queue jumper ... the quarrelsome customer at the resturant ... at the supermarket ... the exams cheat .... the students who goes around asking for assignments to copy ....
the list goes on ....
mark my words ... the day may very well come where being a chinese will get you spat on in the streets of certain countries ... and the worst part is ... I'm not sure I can fault them for it ...
Yeah... their ethics (what ethics?) can be so deplorable and lacking!
And that's why I think, one of the ways to earn respect when you're out of home turf, is to speak English well. People start to listen to you, and they'll realise that you can't be categorised with the Vietnamese and the PRC's so that's one little battle won.
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
Face it... as long as it is not our native language, there will be an accent.
I cringe when I hear certain accents here, including our easily-distinguishable Singapore accent. And yes, if you try too hard, it all comes out fake.
I don't care much about accents, as long as it's crisp, clear, and the grammar is good. No horrible sins like "I goes..." or "She runned...".
the thing is ....
the common perception of what constitutes "good" english ... especially so in Singapore .... is a different accent ....
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
Hmm... I'm not so sure of that because there are a few of us in here who are fluent in both Singlish AND standard English.
I find it amusing when my UK colleague asks me to spell out words for her when she writes.
I don't deny that there are people who can switch codes. However, many people just can't, so don't even try to get them to learn to switch codes.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
And one has to conscientiously practise speaking proper English. To me, there's no excuse for using Singlish - use English/Mandarin/etc exclusively, other than to translate a word or term, or don't even talk.
But... but... no need to totally eradicate Singlish leh!
I think we do have to start selling the idea that speaking Singlish is NOT equivalent to speaking English!
However, there's no need to totally abolish Singlish because you can be good in English, AND break into Singlish occasionally. -
Originally posted by Fatum:
the thing is ....
the common perception of what constitutes "good" english ... especially so in Singapore .... is a different accent ....
Unfortunately, that's also a misconception held by speakers of Singlish and phoney-accented English.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
I don't deny that there are people who can switch codes. However, many people just can't, so don't even try to get them to learn to switch codes.
Orh.
KB, ever thought of teaching English?
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i'm going to bed.. 6 hours is all i have.
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
Orh.
KB, ever thought of teaching English?
No, I can never be patient with young people, and I'd be too blunt for what will soon be a world obsessed with politically-correct manners.
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Preserve the culture, enhance the basics.
Language itself is a way of communications for one another, am I right? is it possible to speak fluent english and expect some very low level but highly skilled people to understand the meaning? Would it be better to use singlish?
Example: Uncle Wong tells his carpenter, My dear craftsman, would you please enlighthen the corners of your fabulous work piece and curved out the replacement joints with dove tails?
His craftsman will say : huh????
But if it's this: Eh uncle, tat corner ah, ah , "yong hei lei" (use that) dove joint, "ka hao kan" (better looking)
His craftsman will say :ok eh sai... no problem!
:)
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
Unfortunately, that's also a misconception held by speakers of Singlish and phoney-accented English.
Sometimes, I wonder if my spoken English is 'phoney-accented'. I can't tell myself, and since coming here, I think I've had to adopt certain words, and amend my pronunciation and enunciation of certain words, just to get myself understood. In time, if you keep having to do that in your job on a daily basis, it might just become 'natural' without me even realising what's happening.
I hope not though, because I'm not a fan of the Aussie accent. -
Originally posted by Rhonda:
Yeah... their ethics (what ethics?) can be so deplorable and lacking!
And that's why I think, one of the ways to earn respect when you're out of home turf, is to speak English well. People start to listen to you, and they'll realise that you can't be categorised with the Vietnamese and the PRC's so that's one little battle won.
And other way is to treat other people well. Be reasonable and polite with service providers, thank them, respect the differences in culture and infrastructure and "do in Rome as the Romans do".