HIV positive, Who has a right to know ?
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Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:
sometimes you don't know you're a carrier and you spread it around til you know, then you decide whether you're going to take revenge against society.
this was what i knew back from a while, was out for dinner in a group with mostly straight couples and 1 gay guy. when the topic suddenly turned into gay sex his description blew me away. he could do it anytime and anywhere, no protection. like just before crossing the causeway with a totally unknown stranger.(he said this stranger was straight but curious) other times it can happen just when you enter a carpark.(another stranger)
before leavingthe place, a group of his friends(all gays) came over to greet us and it was hinted they're all "together"
as for straight people... another guy i knew, and ex colleague has his whole life revolving around sex, i don't know if he uses protection but he usually likes to go clubbing to pick up girls and some days he looks for prostitutes.
and (this one's more like a rumour) one of my seconday school mates was said to like doing it without a condom with pros.
why wouldn't HIV spread?
the more you're exposed, the higher your risks lor.
the more times u buy in toto, the higher chance for you to strike.
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As for who has a right to know..
It's really subjective.. Telling everyone bla bla bla is HIV positive is like the Nazis forcing the Jews to wear a star of David? No?
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Originally posted by Detached:
As for who has a right to know..
It's really subjective.. Telling everyone bla bla bla is HIV positive is like the Nazis forcing the Jews to wear a star of David? No?
tts what i meant. it's all about circumstances. soon you'll be demanding that all hiv ppl be wearing an electronic collar tag, heck, why don't just keep them in some compound under lock and key, safer right?
this situation sound familiar? world war 2 - familiar?
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well dude, I think that's just the wrong kind of statistics to post up here .......
it may encourage unsafe sex among the foolhardy people .....already, we have cockanathans who put up threads here asking where to get morning after pills .... this shows how many people here only think with their smaller heads ...
a distant cousin times removed actually died of AIDS a few years back ... no one knew about it until the aunty brigade whispered it around just before the funeral ... since then, I have always made sure I used a rubber, as much as I hate them ....
the chance of striking 4D is even lower at 1 in 10000 ... but someone has to be the one to strike it big too ..... whether you're the 1st, or 10000th ... it doesn't matter .... one'd never know if it'll be him or her that "strikes"
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A discussion-worthy thread should not be all guesswork, no? The statistics were put up purely for discussion and knowledge.
If anyone should misuse the stats anyhow, it's their life, they choose how they want to live.
Buying 4D is like betting against the house; the house wins hands down in every game. Here in this case, having unprotected intercourse (and trying to 'win' Aids) is akin to betting against the house - the probability of 'winning' is low.
I for one, do not advocate such practices. But it's a discussion and I'm objective, just presenting facts and stats rather than prejudiced view.
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fair enough, but remember that statistics often has the effect of skewing perceptions ...it's the idiots that get killed first of course ... people would often think, it would never happen to me ... till they get hit ....
and of course ... statistics are never objective ... they are but a means to an end, to illustrate an argument ....
and in this case, I still do think that "objectivity" is a bad thing here ... whatever the probability model says, there are more than 25 million AIDS ghosts and nearly 90 million soon to be ghosts out there that'll disagree with those stats.
I'm not the one taking that zootonic course ... but if I were, I'd certainly be questioning the statistics when casaulty and infection rates number in the tens of millions ... and places in subsahara africa having more than 1 in every 5 person with HIV ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
fair enough, but remember that statistics often has the effect of skewing perceptions ...it's the idiots that get killed first of course ... people would often think, it would never happen to me ... till they get hit ....
and of course ... statistics are never objective ... they are but a means to an end, to illustrate an argument ....
and in this case, I still do think that "objectivity" is a bad thing here ... whatever the probability model says, there are more than 25 million AIDS ghosts and nearly 90 million soon to be ghosts out there that'll disagree with those stats.
I'm not the one taking that zootonic course ... but if I were, I'd certainly be questioning the statistics when casaulty and infection rates number in the tens of millions ... and places in subsahara africa having more than 1 in every 5 person with HIV ....
Saying that numerical data is not objective is like saying that Math had failed. The odds of striking 4D is 23 in 10,000 times - still some people bagged it on the first time they betted. Just because the probability is low, doesn't mean it wouldn't happen.. Aye, mate?
As for the Aids situation in subsahara Africa - imagine this. You got lotsa free time, you have unprotected intercourse repeatedly with multiple partners. Now the probability of you contracting Aids is significantly higher - it's not just probability, it's cumulative
If you're keen to learn 'bout the Aids situation in Africa, http://www.avert.org/aids-africa-questions-1.htm give this webby a read. It's lengthy, but good nevertheless :)
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Time to go sleep now
The missus is yelling
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Originally posted by Detached:
Saying that numerical data is not objective is like saying that Math had failed. The odds of striking 4D is 23 in 10,000 times - still some people bagged it on the first time they betted. Just because the probability is low, doesn't mean it wouldn't happen.. Aye, mate?
As for the Aids situation in subsahara Africa - imagine this. You got lotsa free time, you have unprotected intercourse repeatedly with multiple partners. Now the probability of you contracting Aids is significantly higher - it's not just probability, it's cumulative
If you're keen to learn 'bout the Aids situation in Africa, http://www.avert.org/aids-africa-questions-1.htm give this webby a read. It's lengthy, but good nevertheless :)
and you just sort of knocked off the statistics you quoted, well and good ...
it's not about the statistics, but what you do with it ....
what I'm trying to say here .... is that objectivity is not a good thing here ...
there is a pandemic going around, it's inevitably terminal, and it's incurable, tens of millions have died, and tens of millions are waiting to die ..... I do not think an ivory tower approach would do anything to help solve the problem, if anything, it would only give people a false sense of security, of immunity, neh ? ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
well dude, I think that's just the wrong kind of statistics to post up here .......
it may encourage unsafe sex among the foolhardy people .....already, we have cockanathans who put up threads here asking where to get morning after pills .... this shows how many people here only think with their smaller heads ...
a distant cousin times removed actually died of AIDS a few years back ... no one knew about it until the aunty brigade whispered it around just before the funeral ... since then, I have always made sure I used a rubber, as much as I hate them ....
the chance of striking 4D is even lower at 1 in 10000 ... but someone has to be the one to strike it big too ..... whether you're the 1st, or 10000th ... it doesn't matter .... one'd never know if it'll be him or her that "strikes"
haha nowadays i sometimes get the thought pros are probably cleaner than the girl you're dating or going to pick up. at least pros go for a check up because of the nature of their job.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
the more you're exposed, the higher your risks lor.
the more times u buy in toto, the higher chance for you to strike.
applied to std i believe but i don't think that works for me in toto
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Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:
applied to std i believe but i don't think that works for me in toto
means u're not buying enough lol
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Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:
sometimes you don't know you're a carrier and you spread it around til you know, then you decide whether you're going to take revenge against society.
this was what i knew back from a while, was out for dinner in a group with mostly straight couples and 1 gay guy. when the topic suddenly turned into gay sex his description blew me away. he could do it anytime and anywhere, no protection. like just before crossing the causeway with a totally unknown stranger.(he said this stranger was straight but curious) other times it can happen just when you enter a carpark.(another stranger)
before leavingthe place, a group of his friends(all gays) came over to greet us and it was hinted they're all "together"
as for straight people... another guy i knew, and ex colleague has his whole life revolving around sex, i don't know if he uses protection but he usually likes to go clubbing to pick up girls and some days he looks for prostitutes.
and (this one's more like a rumour) one of my seconday school mates was said to like doing it without a condom with pros.
why wouldn't HIV spread?
Should they be repentant and seeking for redemption instead?Thank GOD that I do not know such people in my life.
These people are like animals, they lived like animals and they deserved to die like animals and will die like animals.
Life is alot shorter for people who have little or zero faith in GOD.
Hopefully this kind of people will realise as soon as possible that 100 years of lifetime is not a very long time at all....if they can lived to 100 years.
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Originally posted by parn:
Should they be repentant and seeking for redemption instead?Thank GOD that I do not know such people in my life.
These people are like animals, they lived like animals and they deserved to die like animals and will die like animals.
Life is alot shorter for people who have little or zero faith in GOD.
Hopefully this kind of people will realise as soon as possible that 100 years of lifetime is not a very long time at all....if they can lived to 100 years.
you'll never know. if you're not exposed to these people you won't know if they existed in your lives.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
and you just sort of knocked off the statistics you quoted, well and good ...
it's not about the statistics, but what you do with it ....
what I'm trying to say here .... is that objectivity is not a good thing here ...
there is a pandemic going around, it's inevitably terminal, and it's incurable, tens of millions have died, and tens of millions are waiting to die ..... I do not think an ivory tower approach would do anything to help solve the problem, if anything, it would only give people a false sense of security, of immunity, neh ? ...
Nope, I didn't. That's largely dependant on how you interpret those statistics. And it seems that Fatum's pro-philosophy
(I took the effort of digging through millions and millions of bookmarks, in search of an interesting article I've read back then - There you go, mate! FATUM CLICK HERE! )I'm in agreement that Aids pandemic is worrying - like you've mentioned that it's terminal and incurable at the moment. Despite the advancement of medical science, Aids pandemic claimed an estimated 2.1 million lives in 2007, of which 330, 000 were children.
The situation is critical; and the question is 'what should be the ideal way to solve the problem?' You mentioned that the statistics only give people a false sense of security, that's largely dependant on individual perception of the stats? No? What in your opinon should be the right approach then? Politics of fear? Telling people that they're doomed and would contract aids for sure if they sleep with a sex worker?
Are you in favor of the truth or in favor of 'the easy way' to rid the problem?
(Sorry for the very late reply, fatummy - was basking in too much happiness for this
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Originally posted by Detached:
Nope, I didn't. That's largely dependant on how you interpret those statistics. And it seems that Fatum's pro-philosophy (I took the effort of digging through
millions and millions of bookmarks, in search of an interesting
article I've read back then - There you go, mate! FATUM CLICK HERE! )I'm in agreement that Aids pandemic is worrying - like you've mentioned that it's terminal and incurable at the moment. Despite the advancement of medical science, Aids pandemic claimed an estimated 2.1 million lives in 2007, of which 330, 000 were children.
The situation is critical; and the question is 'what should be the ideal way to solve the problem?' You mentioned that the statistics only give people a false sense of security, that's largely dependant on individual perception of the stats? No? What in your opinon should be the right approach then? Politics of fear? Telling people that they're doomed and would contract aids for sure if they sleep with a sex worker?
Are you in favor of the truth or in favor of 'the easy way' to rid the problem?
(Sorry for the very late reply, fatummy - was basking in too much happiness for this
)I got sian'ed immediately the moment I clicked on the link ... I guess I have left philosophy far behind after the one and only free elective in the uni ...
I guess I have a "puritanical" view of such things, (despite my own personal record
)so yes, I do believe in telling people that they have a very good chance of contracting AIDS if they sleep with a sex worker (and probably a host of other nasty bugs too), I do believe in telling people that the best chance of NOT contracting HIV (and a host of other nasty bugs), lies not in using a condom while bonking like a rake, but in being faithful to their partners, I do believe that the majority (not all, of course) of HIV carriers, had no one but themselves to blame, be they wankers who farked around, or drug addicts who shared needles, they shouldn't have been unfaithful, or they shouldn't have been taking drugs in the first place. The biggest tragedy is not in those people dying, but them bringing down other people with them, wives who caught HIV from their unfaithful husbands, child who caught HIV from their parents, poor sods who caught HIV through the health system.
since you agree that there is a serious problem here .... would the public be better served by tellling them
1. that there's really a low risk of contracting HIV if you wantonly bonk around (which I dispute in any case)
or
2. there is a good chance that you'll catch it ... and it'll be something you'll regret for the rest of your short live, and you would not only be giving yourself a death sentence, but maybe, innocent people around you as well ? ....
it's like telling people that the probability of catching lung cancer is actually very low if they smoke, isn't it ? ....
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I don't consider your approach any 'puritanical'.
Of course, the underlying intention is good. But that's like telling a white lie, isn't it? That's akin to telling a child "Oy! Don't do that! Police will catch!"... Sure, you care 'bout your kid... You told the white lie to keep him out of trouble... But your weapon is fear...
My card is not terror, my friend
Sure there are propriety, rules and whatever decorum that should be followed; but I believe in education and free will. You teach the whatever morals and whatever risks of consequence, and they decide how they want to live their lives. They make the mistake, they pay dearly for it. Life's fair like that!
The biggest tragedy is in those numbskulls who had a choice, but chose not to win.
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Originally posted by Detached:
I don't consider your approach any 'puritanical'.
Of course, the underlying intention is good. But that's like telling a white lie, isn't it? That's akin to telling a child "Oy! Don't do that! Police will catch!"... Sure, you care 'bout your kid... You told the white lie to keep him out of trouble... But your weapon is fear...
My card is not terror, my friend
Sure there are propriety, rules and whatever decorum that should be followed; but I believe in education and free will. You teach the whatever morals and whatever risks of consequence, and they decide how they want to live their lives. They make the mistake, they pay dearly for it. Life's fair like that!
The biggest tragedy is in those numbskulls who had a choice, but chose not to win.
but my dear .... that's the whole point of the exercise isn't it ? ....
all these campaigns for people not to bonk around with no rubbers, not to drink and drive, not to take drugs. .....
it's not about educating the smart people who can think for themselves .... but to save the idiots and numbskulls from themselves, no ? .....
so how do you think a numbskull would react when you tell him ... you know, the chance of you bonking without a condom and catching HIV is actually very very low ....................................
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But stats are dynamic figures.....and the rate at which it is moving up is exponential.....no?
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Originally posted by Fatum:
but my dear .... that's the whole point of the exercise isn't it ? ....
all these campaigns for people not to bonk around with no rubbers, not to drink and drive, not to take drugs. .....
it's not about educating the smart people who can think for themselves .... but to save the idiots and numbskulls from themselves, no ? .....
so how do you think a numbskull would react when you tell him ... you know, the chance of you bonking without a condom and catching HIV is actually very very low ....................................
It's about educating the uneducated for them to save themselves, if they want to.. that is..To be extremely cruel - the world's overcrowded and it's still the same game.. survival of the fittest.. The wise knows enough to save their own arse.. the foolish makes enough bad decisions to 'opt out' from the gene pool..
It's just natural selection in its most subtle form =X
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Getting too draggy, fatum.. No one's going to win.. it's just two different views altogether.. let's just cut this short.. and we'll have a absinthe deathmatch at your party
