Would you sign a pre-nup ? ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
damm, this is terrible .....
is romance dead ? ......
I mean, are we all so cynical and jaded about love that so many are willing to partake in an undertaking that is, really, a sort of prep work for the failure of a marriage ? ...
It already is. Not talking about divorce doesn't mean that the chance of it happening or that people change doesn't exist.
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My short answer is yes but I doubt the contract is legally enforceable. Even so, I'll still honour it if it really comes down to it. Am not one to go back on my words. Plus I'm marrying the person, not his wealth. What would I do with all that $ when that's not what I want outta a marriage.
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Cassie, u can choose not to take it if someway along the marriage fails that no one hope to be..........
But by signing that, seems to me that we are planning for the worst.... Failure in marriage, then Y want to get married in the 1st place?
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Originally posted by Bak la va:
Cassie, u can choose not to take it if someway along the marriage fails that no one hope to be..........
But by signing that, seems to me that we are planning for the worst.... Failure in marriage, then Y want to get married in the 1st place?
Because life can be pretty unexpected and full of surprises?? (Nasty ones too)Seriously these days looking at the divorce rates, I think more and more people are considering a pre-nup.
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There's some things in life that... I think we need to take a leap of faith.
Simply cos it really doesn't make sense to begin with - the whole Legalised Monogamous Matrimony business.
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Just stay together without getting married lor.
Save paper and ink.
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The Sunday's Times got 1 person write in the forums about this. He is against it as a marriage involves mutual trust and it is not a business contract when u sign sign then dun wan can tear away contract.
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Put it this way, if there's no talk of a pre-nup, I won't bring it up.
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Erm.... in case you dun know, such thing do not exist in SG... at least towards females.
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last week or so
they said in singapore, pre-nup will be considered in case of divorce but not guaranteed will be upheld -
Law of contracts - don't believe it applies to pre-nup. Hence my initial query.
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Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:
There's some things in life that... I think we need to take a leap of faith.
Simply cos it really doesn't make sense to begin with - the whole Legalised Monogamous Matrimony business.
once again, shro hits the nail with a lot less words ........
yes, I totally agree with you .......I think marriage is something that has to be undertaken on faith alone .... one should never hedge the risks that way ... if you have any doubts, then don't get married to the person ....
sure, a lot of things in life can and will go wrong ... but if everything is so hedged and cut and dried, then is anything sacred anymore ? ... what happened to all the "for better or worse, till death do us part" bits before the altar ? ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
once again, shro hits the nail with a lot less words ........
yes, I totally agree with you .......I think marriage is something that has to be undertaken on faith alone .... one should never hedge the risks that way ... if you have any doubts, then don't get married to the person ....
sure, a lot of things in life can and will go wrong ... but if everything is so hedged and cut and dried, then is anything sacred anymore ? ... what happened to all the "for better or worse, till death do us part" bits before the altar ? ...
I'm sorry, but are you going to stay by your partner if she abuses and humiliates you verbally all the time, and locks you at home while she goes out and has her way? There has to be a limit to everything. You don't build a fire station without an evacuation plan just because an accident shouldn't happen there, right?
Personal experience has taught me that people can turn into nasty little shits with forked tongues the moment they want out or see that there's something to be gained.
Seriously speaking, there's no consoling oneself after going through all the anguish.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
I'm sorry, but are you going to stay by your partner if she abuses and humiliates you verbally all the time, and locks you at home while she goes out and has her way? There has to be a limit to everything. You don't build a fire station without an evacuation plan just because an accident shouldn't happen there, right?
Personal experience has taught me that people can turn into nasty little shits with forked tongues the moment they want out or see that there's something to be gained.
if future fatumnette turns out to be some gold digging harpy from the gutters, or even someone like you've described, then it'll be the biggest mistake of my life ... but it still won't be something I'd hedge ...
some things in life you jump in with eyes wide open .....
I like to think of marriages as something like having kids ..... you think long and hard about whether you'd managed, whether if your kid will turn into those terror tykes on MRTs, whether they'll be smart enough to do well in the PSLE, whether they'll fall into bad company, whether they'll be able to get into uni, whether it'll be expensive .... whether the CPF would be enough for the school fees .... yadda yadda .....
you can't hedge the risks of having a kid ... there are no "reset" modes for that ... once the BB pops out, the babe's your responsibility for better or worse, whether the kid turns out to be the next einstein or forrest gump, whether he's well behaved or a terror ... you give him or her unconditional love, without reservations, without holding anything back .....
I think marriage, and love, is exactly the same thing ... it should be unconditional, without reservations, without holding anything back ... that is why people don't fall in love, or even in crush, every day ... because the primal instinct is to cherish and love and protect and give your all for that person.
if your secret heart says "look, something may go wrong in the future, she may turn out to be not who I want, or what I had imagined her to be" .... then I have to say that you've either jumped in with eyes wide shut, that you haven't known her well enough, or did not test the person well enough, before you commit, it'll be your mistake alone ....
or perhaps really, you don't really love her all that much ... certainly not enough anyways .... if your secret heart is saying such things to you before the big leap, then I'd suggest holding back and re-evaluating what the other person really means to you ..... "oh sure, this is the person I'm sharing my life with till death to us part, to share all the joys and pains, the laughters and the sorrows, the good times and the bad, the person who I'd share my inner most fears and hopes with, my most intimate thoughts and actions, the one who'd succor me in the bad times, the one I'd go to for comfort and she too in turn .... the one who'll share all my burdens .... but I just draw the line at sharing my fortune with, her ? " ..... errrrrmmmm .... okaaaay ... that doesn't sound quite, right, does it ?
I'd never let anyone whom I've not prepared to share everything with, into my life ...
if someone were to ask me to sign a pre-nup, I'd simply walk away, that person is NOT the one ....... for I know, in her secret heart, she's already thought of her options for leaving me ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
if future fatumnette turns out to be some gold digging harpy from the gutters, or even someone like you've described, then it'll be the biggest mistake of my life ... but it still won't be something I'd hedge ...
some things in life you jump in with eyes wide open .....
I like to think of marriages as something like having kids ..... you think long and hard about whether you'd managed, whether if your kid will turn into those terror tykes on MRTs, whether they'll be smart enough to do well in the PSLE, whether they'll fall into bad company, whether they'll be able to get into uni, whether it'll be expensive .... whether the CPF would be enough for the school fees .... yadda yadda .....
you can't hedge the risks of having a kid ... there are no "reset" modes for that ... once the BB pops out, the babe's your responsibility for better or worse, whether the kid turns out to be the next einstein or forrest gump, whether he's well behaved or a terror ... you give him or her unconditional love, without reservations, without holding anything back .....
I think marriage, and love, is exactly the same thing ... it should be unconditional, without reservations, without holding anything back ... that is why people don't fall in love, or even in crush, every day ... because the primal instinct is to cherish and love and protect and give your all for that person.
if your secret heart says "look, something may go wrong in the future, she may turn out to be not who I want, or what I had imagined her to be" .... then I have to say that you've either jumped in with eyes wide shut, that you haven't known her well enough, or did not test the person well enough, before you commit, it'll be your mistake alone ....
or perhaps really, you don't really love her all that much ... certainly not enough anyways .... if your secret heart is saying such things to you before the big leap, then I'd suggest holding back and re-evaluating what the other person really means to you ..... "oh sure, this is the person I'm sharing my life with till death to us part, to share all the joys and pains, the laughters and the sorrows, the good times and the bad, the person who I'd share my inner most fears and hopes with, my most intimate thoughts and actions, the one who'd succor me in the bad times, the one I'd go to for comfort and she too in turn .... the one who'll share all my burdens .... but I just draw the line at sharing my fortune with, her ? " ..... errrrrmmmm .... okaaaay ... that doesn't sound quite, right, does it ?
I'd never let anyone whom I've not prepared to share everything with, into my life ...
if someone were to ask me to sign a pre-nup, I'd simply walk away, that person is NOT the one ....... for I know, in her secret heart, she's already thought of her options for leaving me ....
Pre-nups not about not sharing during the marriage, but protecting what is originally yours in the aftermath of a split, so that some things don't get liquidated and you still have them, just as at the start of the marriage.
As for kids, while you don't have much control over how quickly they develop, you try to manipulate (or mould) them into whatever you want them to be by teaching them values, enrolling them in top-notch schools and sending them for whatever enrichment classes, in the hope that it will influence the result somehow.
It's not the same with marriage. There's no such thing as knowing enough about a person to commit. And there's no such thing as trust that is given freely without prerequisites to earn it or conditions to maintain it.
You'll be surprised how quickly they can change under a different set of testing circumstances, or different temptations, when someone else's opinion starts to matter more or when one more day or compromise is one too many. And more surprises await when they start taking advice from unsavoury sources to heart.
Why make the process of letting go harder by allowing the things that you treasure to become her trophies or souvenirs?
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
Pre-nups not about not sharing during the marriage, but protecting what is originally yours in the aftermath of a split, so that some things don't get liquidated and you still have them, just as at the start of the marriage.
As for kids, while you don't have much control over how quickly they develop, you try to manipulate (or mould) them into whatever you want them to be by teaching them values, enrolling them in top-notch schools and sending them for whatever enrichment classes, in the hope that it will influence the result somehow.
It's not the same with marriage. There's no such thing as knowing enough about a person to commit. You'll be surprised how quickly they can change under a different set of testing circumstances, or different temptations, when someone else's opinion starts to matter more or when one more day or compromise is one too many. And more surprises await when they start taking advice from unsavoury sources to heart.
I would imagine you'd have more control and moulding powers, more influence, over someone you sleep with than "someone else" neh ? ... and if they start taking advice from unsavoury sources ... then there must already exist a chasm in the union, no ? ...
I would think it's easier to unconditionally love a spouse more than a kid ... cos you get to pick and choose your spouse, so to speak, but have to take what the chap upstairs give you as your children .....
but aiyah ! ... for me ... what's mine shall be hers, what's hers shall still be hers .... that includes my diving gear, fishing rods, and precious books as well ...
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Originally posted by TehJarVu:
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She take my money, well I'm in need
Yeah she's a triflin' friend indeed
Oh she's a gold digger way over time
That digs on me
[Chorus:]
(She steal me money)
Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger (When I'm in need)
But she ain't messin' wit no broke Niggaz (She steal me money)
Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger (When I'm in need)
But she ain't messin' wit no broke Niggaz(I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head get down (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head get down (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head get down (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head
[Verse 1:]
[Jamie Foxx's lyrics repeated across verse]
Cutie da bomb
Met her at a beauty salon
With a baby Louis Vuitton
Under her under arm
She said I can tell you rock
I can tell by ya charm
Far as girls you got a flock
I can tell by ya charm and ya arm
but I'm lookin' for the one
have you seen her?
My psychic told me she gonna have a ass like Serena
Trina, Jennifer Lopez, four kids
An' I gotta take all they bad ass to show-biz
Okay get ya kids but then they got they friends
I pulled up in the Benz, they all got up in
We all went to din and then I had to pay
If you fuckin' with this girl then you betta' be paid
You know why
Take too much to touch her
From what I heard she got a baby by Busta
My best friend say she used to fuck with Usher
I don't care what none of y'all say I still love her
[Chorus:]
(she steal me money)
Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger (When I'm in need)
But she ain't messin' wit no broke niggas (she steal me money)
Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger (When I'm in need)
But she ain't messin' wit no broke niggas (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head get down (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head get down (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head get down (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head
[Verse 2:]
[Jamie Foxx's lyrics repeated across verse]
18 years, 18 years
She got one of yo' kids, got you for 18 years
I know somebody payin' child support for one of his kids
His baby momma's car crib is bigger than his
You will see him on TV, any given Sunday
Win the Superbowl and drive off in a Hyundai
She was supposed to buy ya shorty Tyco with ya money
She went to the doctor got lipo with ya money
She walkin' around lookin' like Michael with ya money
Shoulda' got that insured, GEICO for ya moneeey(your money)
If you ain't no punk holla' we want pre-nup
WE WANT PRE-NUP!, yeah
It's something that you need to have
'Cause when she leave yo' ass she gon' leave with half
18 years, 18 years
And on her 18th birthday, he found out it wasn't his?
[Chorus:]
(she steal me money)
Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger (When I'm in need)
But she ain't messin' wit no broke niggas (she steal me money)
Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger (When I'm in need)
but she ain't messin' wit no broke niggas (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head get down (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head get down (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head get down (I gotta leave)
Get down girl, go 'head
Now I ain't sayin' you a gold digger, you got needs
You want a dude to smoke, but he can't buy weed
You go out to eat, can't pay, y'all can't leave
There's dishes in the back, he gotta roll up his sleeves
But while y'all washin', watch him
He gon' make it to a Benz out of that Datsun
He got that ambition, baby look in his eyes
(Jamie Foxx comes in)
This week he's moppin' floors, next week it's the fries
So, stick by his side
I know this dude's ballin, and yeah that's nice
And they gon' keep callin' and tryin'
But you stay right, girl
But when you get on, he leave yo' ass for a white girl
Get down girl, go 'head get down
Get down girl, go 'head get down
Get down girl, go 'head get down
Get down girl, go 'head
(She take my money)
Let me hear that back -
Originally posted by Fatum:
I would imagine you'd have more control and moulding powers, more influence, over someone you sleep with than "someone else" neh ? ... and if they start taking advice from unsavoury sources ... then there must already exist a chasm in the union, no ? ...
I would think it's easier to unconditionally love a spouse more than a kid ... cos you get to pick and choose your spouse, so to speak, but have to take what the chap upstairs give you as your children .....
but aiyah ! ... for me ... what's mine shall be hers, what's hers shall still be hers .... that includes my diving gear, fishing rods, and precious books as well ...
Will they be hers after the marriage as well, for her to sell off for a massive profit or neglect?
Unsavoury advice doesn't always have to come from members of the opposite sex. It could come from family members and friends who encourage her to get the most out of the divorce. And you don't have much influence over her past experiences, her values and the way she grew up.
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oh oh! my friends and i were discussing about it some time back.
i was against it, he is for it.
now i see the validity
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say so much i still dunno what is pre-nup
:(
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
Will they be hers after the marriage as well, for her to sell off for a massive profit or neglect?
Unsavoury advice doesn't always have to come from members of the opposite sex. It could come from family members and friends who encourage her to get the most out of the divorce. And you don't have much influence over her past experiences, her values and the way she grew up.
sure, I won't be able to have much influence with her past experiences and her value .... but if her values were incompatible with mine in the first place ..... then I don't see myself being with her at all, neh ? ....
that's why shotguns or lightning unions doesn't work out that well ... you don't know what you're getting yourself into ... and if you don't know if she will change, or unsure of what she really is like, then you shouldn't be in the marriage in the first place ... of course, if we want to stretch things, maybe she'll decide to get the whole hog and smother you with her boobs or something, neh ? ... do you guard against that ? ... if you think you know her well enough to think that she won't do that, why wouldn't you think that you also know her well enough to know if she's after your money or not ? ....
I would respect the person that I fall in love with ... and I would keep in mind the risk that she's taking in being with me too, who knows, I may turn out to be be a wife punching, sadistic SOB who brings out the whip on her to get my rocks off, neh ? ....and who knows, she may end up losing more than I do, in her lost income, her lost youth, her lost vitality, lost career, lost true lost, etc etc, neh ? .....
a pre-nup makes the risks unequal on both sides ..... if I respect her for who she is, and love her unreservedly, completely, and is willing to witholds nothing from her (the preconditions for marriage in the first place in my books), then why would I need a pre-nup ? ... because I think I have more to lose in a failed marriage than the other party ? ... what of HER risks then ? ... on the same corrollary, I think partners should have a little more self respect than to so readily sign some sort of legal contract even before a formal marriage, now if I were a girl, first thought in my head should be, why is he protecting his assets already, does he intend to treat me as a two year cho cho san ? ... does it means he's not really serious about me ? ... maybe he wants a trophy wife, an accoutrement for his cars and address ? ...with this contract, he can get rid of me later, when he's tired of me, at minimal costs ? .... have a little self respect ladies ! .... if a man loves you enough, he should never ask you to sign one ! ....
of course ... the other sad thing about this whole business ... is that so many are ready to place material considerations over love ...... cynicism ? ... jadedness ? ... I hope that my view on love would never ever change ...
mean while, ladies, my deal holds (what's mine shall be yours, what's yours shall still be yours) ... taking in fatumnette applications now ... v
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people go into relationships expecting failures
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Originally posted by laurence82:
people go into relationships expecting failures
So not true! That's like saying people buy into shares expecting losses. Getting involved in a relationship is akin to buying shares - you WANT it to be successful, but you cannot be so foolish that you do not recognise the risks and the possibilities that it just might fail. You go into both with your eyes wide open, and experience, wisdom and observation will teach you to hedge your losses if they are losses you cannot bear to have.
That is not cynicism or bitterness. That is wisdom. Being idealistic is like walking around with a candy-floss fluff-cloud around one's head. Being hopeful despite knowing better is what most wise people do when falling in love.
However, there comes a point when there are losses you KNOW you just cannot bear. If, like that Frenchman, I have inherited a family heirloom that's a castle and it's been in my family for generations and generations, THAT is priceless! It's something that you simply cannot afford to lose! In cases like that, a pre-nup is best to safeguard priceless, irreplaceable things because once love turns sour, both sides can turn extremely vicious overnight.
Basically, you can guarantee your own behaviour, morality and love but you can never guarantee how the significant other will react in a fallout. Therefore if there are assets you just cannot bear to lose, it's better to make things clear-cut right from the start.
Things are simpler for me - I've got nothing of value so I won't need to initiate a pre-nup!
And I don't think anyone will fight with me over grandma's heirloom - her Nyonya Sarong Kebaya or grandpa's yandao black-n-white photo taken when he was a rich young adult playboy.