Would you sign a pre-nup ? ....
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i'll feel insulted if he ask me to sign a pre-nup... u think i'm hard up for ur $$$??!!! wtf??!!! if u dun trust me, why marry me?
i still believe in marriage... it's a good thing for those who love and willing to spend the rest of their lives together...
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i love you but u cant have 50% of my assets after we split...
u however can share 50% of my liabilities after the separation...
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i dun mind signing a pre-nup if it includes a clause like
"your money is my money, my money is still my money.:
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I say again, why even get married?
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Originally posted by tare:
i'll feel insulted if he ask me to sign a pre-nup... u think i'm hard up for ur $$$??!!! wtf??!!! if u dun trust me, why marry me?
i still believe in marriage... it's a good thing for those who love and willing to spend the rest of their lives together...
hint to some one arh?
anyway pre-nup useful if you have somethign that must be kept in the family lah. As rhonda said, be practical. like it or not more and mroe marraiges are ending in divorce.
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Originally posted by hisoka:
hint to some one arh?
anyway pre-nup useful if you have somethign that must be kept in the family lah. As rhonda said, be practical. like it or not more and mroe marraiges are ending in divorce.
hint simi hint? no need to hint de lor.... hahahhahaahaa -
I'm a huge supporter for pre-nuptial agreements, maybe i would like to throw in some opinions from another angle...
Thus far, the whole discussion about the pre-nup has been centred around the basis of "escaping" the 50% alimony...
However, that's just one aspect of a pre-nup... The pre-nup can encompass so many more factors other than money, which will (in my opinion) help with a marriage instead of acting like a hedge fund which some of you see it as... I will cite some examples to help with understanding my point of view.
First, custody... Having custody set out in a pre-nup would mean there won't be messy lawsuits and all the courtroom drama (i.e dirt spilling and finger pointing)... Which means once the divorce takes effect, everything would have been set out already...
Second, marriage "rules"... These can be set out in the pre-nup, terms or agreements that protect both parties in a marriage and preserve the way you want to live... Whether or not you wanna live with parents, live where... etc etc... all these can be set out in a pre-nup... Not trying to say that things cannot "cham xiong" when you get married... but why deal with the "you cheated me" feelings when everything can be thrown out on the table during the negotiations of the pre-nup... I mean, if both parties willingly sign the damn agreement, you should be knowingly entering into that condition without the feeling of being cheated or regret later...
Third, the negotiation for a pre-nup can serve as a platform to understand your other half better... Nothing beats the honesty that comes when someone has to sign a legally binding contract and held legally responsible to what he or she has agreed to do... "Remember you promised me 70% of your assets if we divorce honey? NOW PUT IT IN!"...
There should be certain other factors that make a pre-nup actually a very rationale and logical thing to do... If taken from the right angle, there shouldn't even be the "if you love me why do we have to do this" feelings... In all, I feel that the true essence of a pre-nup lies in the fact that it can help guide a marriage instead...
I hope I have helped with the understanding of the true intentions of a pre-nup and what it can mean, instead of just seeing it as a hedging tool... I mean, if you want, you can even offer to give your potential wife 100% of your assets and put it in the pre-nup... that way it shows you have faith in the marriage?
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Originally posted by Shermalingam:
I'm a huge supporter for pre-nuptial agreements, maybe i would like to throw in some opinions from another angle...
Thus far, the whole discussion about the pre-nup has been centred around the basis of "escaping" the 50% alimony...
However, that's just one aspect of a pre-nup... The pre-nup can encompass so many more factors other than money, which will (in my opinion) help with a marriage instead of acting like a hedge fund which some of you see it as... I will cite some examples to help with understanding my point of view.
First, custody... Having custody set out in a pre-nup would mean there won't be messy lawsuits and all the courtroom drama (i.e dirt spilling and finger pointing)... Which means once the divorce takes effect, everything would have been set out already...
Second, marriage "rules"... These can be set out in the pre-nup, terms or agreements that protect both parties in a marriage and preserve the way you want to live... Whether or not you wanna live with parents, live where... etc etc... all these can be set out in a pre-nup... Not trying to say that things cannot "cham xiong" when you get married... but why deal with the "you cheated me" feelings when everything can be thrown out on the table during the negotiations of the pre-nup... I mean, if both parties willingly sign the damn agreement, you should be knowingly entering into that condition without the feeling of being cheated or regret later...
Third, the negotiation for a pre-nup can serve as a platform to understand your other half better... Nothing beats the honesty that comes when someone has to sign a legally binding contract and held legally responsible to what he or she has agreed to do... "Remember you promised me 70% of your assets if we divorce honey? NOW PUT IT IN!"...
There should be certain other factors that make a pre-nup actually a very rationale and logical thing to do... If taken from the right angle, there shouldn't even be the "if you love me why do we have to do this" feelings... In all, I feel that the true essence of a pre-nup lies in the fact that it can help guide a marriage instead...
I hope I have helped with the understanding of the true intentions of a pre-nup and what it can mean, instead of just seeing it as a hedging tool... I mean, if you want, you can even offer to give your potential wife 100% of your assets and put it in the pre-nup... that way it shows you have faith in the marriage?
if a person's marriage can only work if it's "guided" by a legal contract, I really have to wonder what kind of a relationship that is ........I mean, you trust your partner that much that you'll only commit when you have it in black and white that he or she'll behave in a certain way ? ....
"oh, honey, I don't care now that you're retrenched and we'd have to move back with your parents, I don't get along with your folks and we have it in contract ! " ....
"my dear, we had a pre-nup that says you can't go fishing more than once a month, so NO ! ... you can't go fishing with the boys !" .....
"sayang, our pre-nup says you can't feed me broccolli, nevermind that it's good for me, we have it in the pre-nup ! " .....
"We are only going to have one kid, I refuse to have any more, to stop you from badgering me, we'll have it in pre-nup, after one kid I'm getting myself fixed ... if we split up, I'll get the kid if she's a girl, you'll take if it's a boy, I only like girls" ...
I'm stretching it here I know, but doesn't this sound like a dysfunctional relationship to you ? ... I doubt even lawyers would do such things for THEIR own marriages ...
oh, for sure, the super anal may want to work out who gets the dog, the tea cups and the chinese carpets, just in case ! ... but I really have to wonder ... can a relationship in which the basis of mutual trust extends only as far as a piece of legal contract, work ? .....
perhaps it's no wonder why those who sign one, most often end up splitting ? ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
if future fatumnette turns out to be some gold digging harpy from the gutters, or even someone like you've described, then it'll be the biggest mistake of my life ... but it still won't be something I'd hedge ...
some things in life you jump in with eyes wide open .....
I like to think of marriages as something like having kids ..... you think long and hard about whether you'd managed, whether if your kid will turn into those terror tykes on MRTs, whether they'll be smart enough to do well in the PSLE, whether they'll fall into bad company, whether they'll be able to get into uni, whether it'll be expensive .... whether the CPF would be enough for the school fees .... yadda yadda .....
you can't hedge the risks of having a kid ... there are no "reset" modes for that ... once the BB pops out, the babe's your responsibility for better or worse, whether the kid turns out to be the next einstein or forrest gump, whether he's well behaved or a terror ... you give him or her unconditional love, without reservations, without holding anything back .....
I think marriage, and love, is exactly the same thing ... it should be unconditional, without reservations, without holding anything back ... that is why people don't fall in love, or even in crush, every day ... because the primal instinct is to cherish and love and protect and give your all for that person.
if your secret heart says "look, something may go wrong in the future, she may turn out to be not who I want, or what I had imagined her to be" .... then I have to say that you've either jumped in with eyes wide shut, that you haven't known her well enough, or did not test the person well enough, before you commit, it'll be your mistake alone ....
or perhaps really, you don't really love her all that much ... certainly not enough anyways .... if your secret heart is saying such things to you before the big leap, then I'd suggest holding back and re-evaluating what the other person really means to you ..... "oh sure, this is the person I'm sharing my life with till death to us part, to share all the joys and pains, the laughters and the sorrows, the good times and the bad, the person who I'd share my inner most fears and hopes with, my most intimate thoughts and actions, the one who'd succor me in the bad times, the one I'd go to for comfort and she too in turn .... the one who'll share all my burdens .... but I just draw the line at sharing my fortune with, her ? " ..... errrrrmmmm .... okaaaay ... that doesn't sound quite, right, does it ?
I'd never let anyone whom I've not prepared to share everything with, into my life ...
if someone were to ask me to sign a pre-nup, I'd simply walk away, that person is NOT the one ....... for I know, in her secret heart, she's already thought of her options for leaving me ....
Well Said, Fatum!!!!
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I'm far more wary of those who romanticise too much, overestimate themselves and don't have the humility to acknowledge that their feelings, behaviour and character may change unconsciously.
I want the assurance that if my partner becomes a viscious and vindictive crap, there's something to protect me, and vice versa.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
I'm far more wary of those who romanticise too much, overestimate themselves and don't have the humility to acknowledge that their feelings, behaviour and character may change unconsciously.
I want the assurance that if my partner becomes a viscious and vindictive crap, there's something to protect me, and vice versa.
I won't bring up a pre-nup because I have nothing much to lose, not because I have faith in a marriage.
I agree with Kuali Baba, from scientific (Why We Love - Helen Fisher), psychological (The Road Less Travelled - M Scott Peck), and spiritual (The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle) points of view, the phenomenon of "falling in love" actually shows that people "fall in love" for reasons other than love itself, and this feeling changes over time. When we are "in love", we are always ready to sweep the logic / rationale aside. Guys especially, when they are using the alternative thinking organ (aka the d*ck).
Call me a pessimist, I also think we kinda fairy talise and romanticise marriages and relationships too much. Personally, I don't think the high divorce rate is a coincidence.
Note: the book in the bracket is just one example of the many books and articles around on the subject.
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Originally posted by Kuali Baba:
I'm far more wary of those who romanticise too much, overestimate themselves and don't have the humility to acknowledge that their feelings, behaviour and character may change unconsciously.
I want the assurance that if my partner becomes a viscious and vindictive crap, there's something to protect me, and vice versa.
I totally agree there... How many times have we heard from failed marriages that "He was totally different from when we were still dating..." or "She totally changed after marriage"...Thus, signing a pre-nup, or the whole basis of marriage for that matter of fact, lies in "taking the step forward" or putting in the commitment... What better way than something on paper that, when you sign it, formalizes your "commitment" into the matrimony, and that you're compelled to upkeep whatever "promises" you made...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
if a person's marriage can only work if it's "guided" by a legal contract, I really have to wonder what kind of a relationship that is ........I mean, you trust your partner that much that you'll only commit when you have it in black and white that he or she'll behave in a certain way ? ....
"oh, honey, I don't care now that you're retrenched and we'd have to move back with your parents, I don't get along with your folks and we have it in contract ! " ....
"my dear, we had a pre-nup that says you can't go fishing more than once a month, so NO ! ... you can't go fishing with the boys !" .....
"sayang, our pre-nup says you can't feed me broccolli, nevermind that it's good for me, we have it in the pre-nup ! " .....
"We are only going to have one kid, I refuse to have any more, to stop you from badgering me, we'll have it in pre-nup, after one kid I'm getting myself fixed ... if we split up, I'll get the kid if she's a girl, you'll take if it's a boy, I only like girls" ...
I'm stretching it here I know, but doesn't this sound like a dysfunctional relationship to you ? ... I doubt even lawyers would do such things for THEIR own marriages ...
oh, for sure, the super anal may want to work out who gets the dog, the tea cups and the chinese carpets, just in case ! ... but I really have to wonder ... can a relationship in which the basis of mutual trust extends only as far as a piece of legal contract, work ? .....
perhaps it's no wonder why those who sign one, most often end up splitting ? ...
actually one good thing if a prenup can cover it, is for the children. as in if break up who gets the children or under what conditions. at least the dispute doesn't get drawn out. But then again this is singapore, the state some times meddles in too many things that are none of it's business so the pre-nup may not stand.
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Originally posted by CityHermit:
I won't bring up a pre-nup because I have nothing much to lose, not because I have faith in a marriage.
I agree with Kuali Baba, from scientific (Why We Love - Helen Fisher), psychological (The Road Less Travelled - M Scott Peck), and spiritual (The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle) points of view, the phenomenon of "falling in love" actually shows that people "fall in love" for reasons other than love itself, and this feeling changes over time. When we are "in love", we are always ready to sweep the logic / rationale aside. Guys especially, when they are using the alternative thinking organ (aka the d*ck).
Call me a pessimist, I also think we kinda fairy talise and romanticise marriages and relationships too much. Personally, I don't think the high divorce rate is a coincidence.
Note: the book in the bracket is just one example of the many books and articles around on the subject.
Well-said! You can never guarantee that people fall in love for really noble reasons! And sometimes, over time, the best of intentions start to come apart. I wouldn't call you a pessimist - rather, a realist. You, me, KB, Pinky, and a few others in here are people who have weathered the different storms of life and have come out of it wiser. I was a terrible idealist in my youth, but experience has tempered my crazy-poodle yappiness and fairy-floss views on life. There ARE people I know whom, if I were to marry them, I wouldn't even consider a pre-nup because these are people I really trust and I've known them since way back when. I can only count five guys in this category, and all but one of them are already married with kids!
And the two single ones, I'm good mates with them but there's no romantic spark at all. 
Now, these are five men I trust fully because I've known them for donkey years and they are salt-of-the-earth people. So it's not true that I'm consumed by distrust. It's just that true gems are too rare these days and people get away with blue murder in today's permissive society and too few stay on the straight and narrow path.However, that kind of trust is not to be sown around frivolously. Sometimes, I feel that we have a NEED to trust and love so much so that once we hitch onto a specific target, we cannot wait to unleash all those feelings and we try too hard to mould it into the sort of trusting, loving relationship we want without scrutinising the person in the harsh spotlight. These are people who eventually end up being victimised because they are pretty much sitting ducks who won't open their eyes and see reality, but rather, gloss over every single one of the warning signs. Seriously, listen to what your close friends say about your chosen mate because they have your best interests at heart and they are third parties who can see clearly because they don't have the wool pulled over their eyes and they are not blinded by the love and the desire to fall in love.
All said, I've decided that my cookbook collection is so precious that IF I ever lose them because of a nasty divorce,
... It will be unfathomable for me to lose my mate, AND my cookbook collection! I started my collection since I was 11, therefore, although it's nothing in monetary terms, it's priceless in sentimental value. -
mebbe... the real reason why prenups don't make sense to me is because... err i possess nothing that I need to protect.....
.... as for the house, well, i think if it comes to that - i won't care anymore ~ just get out of my life.
Ok.. mebbe we will fight over the custody of the cat.
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I dont think i ll ever encounter the need to sign a prenup. Have not met anyone with any blue blood running through him with a castle or some royal jewels to protect. Neither have i got anything precious from previous generations that must be passed on.
But if i do encounter, i will just sign i guess. I dont marry for the castle or anything. haha...
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It IS really sad that in this day and age, pre-nups exist. It does sound like you're already making an exit plan even before you start married life.
But then again, in this day and age, it pays to be wise. I think there is a really good Cantonese word for that - Seng2 Mok3. -
well .... I think love is like faith in religion ......
it'll only truly comes to you if you have faith .......
and just like in religion], if you no longer have the faith, if you stop believing in it, then there can never be a communion of souls .....
there can only be miracles, when you believe ......
I have lost my faith in religion .... but I can say without irony, that I thank god I haven't lost my faith in love .....
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Originally posted by Shermalingam:
I totally agree there... How many times have we heard from failed marriages that "He was totally different from when we were still dating..." or "She totally changed after marriage"...Thus, signing a pre-nup, or the whole basis of marriage for that matter of fact, lies in "taking the step forward" or putting in the commitment... What better way than something on paper that, when you sign it, formalizes your "commitment" into the matrimony, and that you're compelled to upkeep whatever "promises" you made...
the marriage cert IS a paper we sign and formalizes our committment, isn't it?if a legal paper won't help us keep our promise to each other, i dun see how a [may not be recognized in the sight of sg law] piece of paper can do tat...
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Originally posted by tare:
the marriage cert IS a paper we sign and formalizes our committment, isn't it?if a legal paper won't help us keep our promise to each other, i dun see how a [may not be recognized in the sight of sg law] piece of paper can do tat...
good point... never been married, didn't know you needed to sign on the cert lol...I guess what is present in a pre-nup and not in a marriage cert are the "detail" or "terms and conditions"...
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Originally posted by Shermalingam:
good point... never been married, didn't know you needed to sign on the cert lol...I guess what is present in a pre-nup and not in a marriage cert are the "detail" or "terms and conditions"...
no lah more like the pre-nup is modifications to the original terms and conditions (which I think really discriminates against males)
hmmz when you put it that way I guess it sounds better. You have to sign a contract anyway just that the details of this contract is different from the generic one
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One of the woes of the rich
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prenup is a western thingy. i think asian women won't even marry if you make em sign a prenup.
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Originally posted by 扎fit 人:
prenup is a western thingy. i think asian women won't even marry if you make em sign a prenup.
The discussion keeps veering towards the assumption that the pre-nup is signed to disadvantage the woman... It can be the other way around... In fact, it provides a basis for both sides to state what they would like happen... It should be something that is mutual instead of one-sided...