Need help,i'm stuck.
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*i crosspost sub forum as well (need more brains).
Reason is that some may not surf all sub forum.
Mods, please delete if not apporiate BUT pls direct to correct linkHi all,
First of all, sorry to hv to ask this question.(i dun understand law)
I do not contribute much to this forum thus i hope i'm forgiven.Got into a maligned case & its driving me nuts,very stressed, keep hv to get leave for "interview" & my boss is not happy. Need some views on how to counter back or stay safe.I keep it in point form.
Director is A, B is me.
1. A has agreed to go down to agent to sign some docs on the following morning, my job is to accompany the A down.
2.That morning, A suddenly hv something on, could not make it but he pass me his company chop & instructed me to see what needs to be done first & do it.
3.On reaching the "agent's place", i found out is a piece of paper that need the A's >NRIC,Full Name,Position & Signature.I do not have any of his infos & also cannot sign for him because its forgery without his knowledge.
4.I gave him a call, told him i cannot do this & that, need his infos & signature, he told me over phone to fill in his infos for him.**I then ask him what bout the signature, he say write his name there> which i again ask him, how to spell. He say write XXX on the signature part, if anything happen, he will be answerable for it because he is the boss.I then followed his instructions> fill in his infos & write the XXX on the signature part.
(i hv witness tat hear the conversation as i on speaker jus to be on the safe side.)
5.Now, some @#$& happen> during interogation *Initially, A said he ask me to sign, then later part he change his statment to say> he only ask me to fill in his info for him.
*Meaning to say> i forge his signature without his knowledge?
How should i stay safe on this issue or fight my way with the allegations.
*I do not know the witness will say what, maybe he forgotten.
Any lawyers here or good powerful brain to help me think.I'm lost。
Please dun gv me those funny replys.Thanks.
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maligned????
Sigh....
Can you be more specific on what this is all about.
So far, I can only read that you signed for something on someone's behalf.
1) What is maligned?
2) What agent?
3) What did you signed on bahalf. What document?
4) Whats your position in that company?
5) What interviews or interrogations, with who?
6) Whats the charge, who is charging you, with what? Impersonation? Forgery?
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
maligned????
Sigh....
Can you be more specific on what this is all about.
So far, I can only read that you signed for something on someone's behalf.
1) What is maligned?
2) What agent?
3) What did you signed on bahalf. What document?
4) Whats your position in that company?
5) What interviews or interrogations, with who?
6) Whats the charge, who is charging you, with what? Impersonation? Forgery?
Thx for the input, i think i got the spelling wrong bah..its something like>
1.I got accused.
2.The agent is those that help to enploy overseas worker.
3.It is a "application form" to apply the Workpass card, those workers are already in singapore @ the point the Director ask me to write his name on the signature line.4.I'm not working in that company, (* the officers had ask me > i;m in what capacity when i was instructed to write XXX on the signature line).
5.The officers are from Ministry Of Manpower,Kim Seng Road.
6.I now still under investigation, no charges against me yet but soon..sigh......They say is i forge his signature, when the actual fact is that the Director of that company instructed me to write his name on it.
Which is why i'm trying to get out of it..
The Director wanted to go & do all nessary application in the 1st place but he could'nt make it at the last minute. He passed me his company chop & instructed me to fill in whatever i can,Upon reaching agent's place, I called him because i cannot do anything ( i also cannot forge his signature because i dunno how he sign & without his knowledge also do not hv his infos to fill in the form.)So i called the Director, say need to fill in form, need his infos..he gv me all infos & then the signature part, i ask him if he wanted to come down to sign, he say write XXX on it...**(because that word hv different spelling), i do not know which is the correct spelling, i ask him to spell for me, after spelling it, he said: "U help me write the spelling i gave you, anything he will be answerable for it, as he is the director of company".. then i followed his instruction & write on it.
I did not write "F" infront of the spelling he gave me, because the part requires the Director signature, meaning actual person to sign it.
I understand that> Actual fact is i did write his name on the signature part, under the instruction of the Director.
I did not forge his signature, it is WITH his knowledge & he instructed me to write on it, furthermore, i dun stand to gain anything, not even 1 cent..
Is like help to write his name on behalf then i kanna tis case lor..
So how..Thanks in advance.
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So that document was never signed. It only has the director's name on the lines where signatures is supposed to be.
You chopped the document.
You are not a legal employee nor were you of rank of that company to be holding the chop.
Thats why.
So basically, who is that director and his relationship with you, that you even went around with his company chop, without a letter of authorisation for you to use that chop?
Get it? Your story focused on the wrong aspect of how this fiasco is being played out.
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
So that document was never signed. It only has the director's name on the lines where signatures is supposed to be.
You chopped the document.You are not a legal employee nor were you of rank of that company to be holding the chop.
Thats why.So basically, who is that director and his relationship with you, that you even went around with his company chop, without a letter of authorisation for you to use that chop?Get it? Your story focused on the wrong aspect of how this fiasco is being played out.
Thank you viciouskitty74,
Yes, but is his christian name.Not his full name..(dun make any diff right?)
Yup, i chopped the doc when i'm not the employee under the instruction.(also dun make much diff here right..)
That director is my friend, he never gv me the letter of authorization.Yup, I understand what u meant liao...So its there any way to get out of this issue?
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Your director friend needs to personally answer to those charges.
Or any more questioning regards to those investigations/Interviews or Interrogations as you term them.
Because, when you handed in the form, there was none of your personal particulars on that contract.
And the only way you were called upon for those interviews. Is that your director 'friend' is no longer your friend.
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play the duress card lor
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BTW, I was waiting up for you. (Was bo liao enough to engage in a senseless fight with a kid at ChitChat.)
I hope you can settle your matter soon.
Do consider speaking to a lawyer about the matter. Because when push comes to shove. I dont know how much you will be shove down the pits since we probably arent getting the full picture of the situation.
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hmm....under contract law, you should be alright.
Apparently, your boss trying to shift the blame to you, as he already know if got something happen you gong gong will take the blame and sit in jail.
Your saving grace, the contract has the bottom saying your boss's name and position. Thus, by signing, and that YOU are not your boss, the contract is INVALID (assuming you signed using your own signature, not mimicking your boss's). There are numerous cases in law on this and many got warning without sentence, you need your lawyer to help you on this.
2nd, there is NO misrepresentation, as during the signing, you ALREADY tell the other party that you are NOT the director, but his assistant etc. Thus, the other party KNOWS full well that you are only helping to sign the papers WITHOUT the assigned power.
3rd, you will NEED BADLY to show that you do NOT know about your boss's illegal ideas of getting additional foreign workers. i.e. you need to show that you are NOT at cahoots with your boss in bluffing the ministry.
4th, turn over and against your boss as a witness to absolve your involvement, act remorseful in court.
Most importantly, you need to speak the truth to the investigation officer, do NOT cover any thing, else the one who suffer will be you and YOU alone. Your boss may pycho you during this time to ask you to bluff and come out with a fake story. Do NOT follow, simply, he's NOT your boss for your whole life. You can always get another job and another boss. =)
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Originally posted by Master -_-:
play the duress card lor
Excellent idea, apparently, your boss have tricked you due to your inexperience. Either that or play the duress card, that your boss intimidated you to act. -
Originally posted by bo liao:
Thank you viciouskitty74,
Yes, but is his christian name.Not his full name..(dun make any diff right?)
Yup, i chopped the doc when i'm not the employee under the instruction.(also dun make much diff here right..)
That director is my friend, he never gv me the letter of authorization.Yup, I understand what u meant liao...So its there any way to get out of this issue?
This part is tricky. By tort/contract laws, as you do not act for the company, the stamp you chopped is not legally binding. But the catch is that, THEN you would be MISREPRESENTING the company, cuz firstly you do NOT have the capacity to negotiate or sign the contract, further not to stamp it.Letter of authorization is only secondary, the LOA can be in the form of paper, in the form of recorded media, like via verification through handphone, video conference, etc etc. IF and only IF the director has communicated/talked to the other party prior to your signing and that the other party understood that the director has given you the authority to sign, then it is ok. Then you should be able to be absolved.
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
Your director friend needs to personally answer to those charges.
Or any more questioning regards to those investigations/Interviews or Interrogations as you term them.
Because, when you handed in the form, there was none of your personal particulars on that contract.
And the only way you were called upon for those interviews. Is that your director 'friend' is no longer your friend.
True, but now i also dunno wat to do except find lawyer.
There are lots of questions...
e.g:Qus> Do u agree these 2 signature look the same?(pointing to director original signature & mine)> i said no, do not know how his signature look like at all, thus i write my own version, not mimicking his signature at all.
then came tis qus: Do u agree it look like a signature> i say it may look like a signature cos i write curcive(dunno spelling), & i draw a line below it.some others i cannot remember liao..sry..
EDITED:Full picture ah..hmmm i also dunno how to tell you, its very complicating..i PM u.
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Originally posted by Master -_-:
play the duress card lor
Sry ah, what is duress card? distress?act pitifull? -
Originally posted by nightzip:
This part is tricky. By tort/contract laws, as you do not act for the company, the stamp you chopped is not legally binding. But the catch is that, THEN you would be MISREPRESENTING the company, cuz firstly you do NOT have the capacity to negotiate or sign the contract, further not to stamp it.Letter of authorization is only secondary, the LOA can be in the form of paper, in the form of recorded media, like via verification through handphone, video conference, etc etc. IF and only IF the director has communicated/talked to the other party prior to your signing and that the other party understood that the director has given you the authority to sign, then it is ok. Then you should be able to be absolved.
Yes, i not in any capacity to do it.(I dunno mah, jus follow blindly, tot chop nia, boss will answer)>now, i hv to answer for what i hv done....LL but trying to see what can be done.
i never record ppl talking de, til now, no LOA at all from this director.
I know i kind of stuck..evidence against me not good..also dun hv things tat favour me..which is why i dunno how to get out of it.
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i dunno about the regulations now but i heard in Singapore courts, audio evidence is presented as null and the strength of the testimony given by the guy you are there to accompany is as good as zero. Like nightzip said, the onus of proof lies on the fact that you do not know about your boss's illegal ideas.
However, if i'm the prosecutor, I would like to know what you were doing there since you are not an employee of the company and yet, you are "engaging" on the contractual services of the foreign workers. You have to think of that and how to cover that scenario.
Most probably is that your director's balls shrunk when he knew that you were "caught", so he immediately retract his statements and cover his own ass. So, you cover your own ass.. say that if you never help A sign the documents, A will recommend you to be sacked...but of course, last resort la
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wait a min guys. he mentioned that he is not an employee of A's company. he mentioned that A is his friend, and he is only helping him out of goodwill.
but anyway, i dont think it's right to use the company stamp if u are not an employee of the company. u just have to get A, who is your friend, to step out and clarify.